Joann Butler: Were you always a Styx fan? Lawrence Gowan: I remember hearing “Crystal Ball” for the first time and cranking the radio up like crazy. Joann Butler: You've been with the band for so long, but how did you come together? Like, who got you in?
Lawrence Gowan: That year I was touring completely solo on piano, and the guys in Styx were kind of all standing side stage watching it and Tommy made the comment to me when I came off, he’s like “We've got to work together again in the future.” When they called in early '99, my assumption was that “Oh, I get to open shows for Styx.” But very quickly, the conversation shifted to, “No, we would like you to join the band.” Joann Butler: You guys have such a nice brotherhood, too, besides having your real brother in the band. Lawrence Gowan: We all have this wonderful occurrence that happens at the end of our day. We join hands in front of thousands of people who are on their feet with big smiles on their faces. Joann Butler: The way you guys move on stage, it's amazing.
Lawrence Gowan: When you hit the stage, you're kind of ageless. You're connected to yourself as a teenager immediately. That's what rock music, that’s what it evokes in you. Cheers.
Hi there. I'm with Joann Butler In Studio With… me, Lawrence Gowan of Styx. Yeah. Joann Butler: Thanks for joining us on LifeMinute.
Lawrence Gowan: Couldn't be happier to join you. Joann Butler: We spoke once before. The last time we spoke was several years ago. You were with Kelly from Foreigner.
Lawrence Gowan: Yeah. Joann Butler: And you guys did it together. Lawrence Gowan: That's right. That's right.
We did. Yeah. Well, nice to, nice to chat with you again. Joann Butler: Oh, it's good to have you back again.
So, catch me up. Lawrence Gowan: Okay. Joann Butler: A lot's been happening since that point. Lawrence Gowan: Let's see now.
Yes. A lot has been happening. Joann Butler: A new album with Styx. Lawrence Gowan: There was a new album called Circling From Above.
Circling From Above came out last year and we're still playing at least one, we played two or three songs from that record in the, in the shows for this summer for the Styx and Chicago tour. We're pairing that down to one song from Circling From Above, possibly one from Crash of the Crown because that record was really successful for us. It got to number one on the Billboard Rock album chart. So, we'll probably do one, and then an absolute slew of nothing but Styx hits for the rest of the, for the rest of the show.
So that's, musically that's what's, what's happened I guess. Let me think now. Yeah. I guess the last time we spoke was just when my brother Terry had joined Styx as our new bass player.
Joann Butler: Yes. Lawrence Gowan: So he's, he's not so new anymore. He's of a finer vintage now. And we just continue to, you know, try to exceed whatever we did, you know, last year, last week, last night as the band continues to forge ahead.
You know, 54 years in existence now. Joann Butler: Amazing. Lawrence Gowan: And seems to be an insatiable demand to see Styx and to, to embrace classic rock. I don't think it's ever been stronger.
Joann Butler: It's wonderful. It's amazing, isn't it? It seems like you guys have such a nice brotherhood, too. Besides having your real brother in the band, it just seems like you guys all get along well.
And… Lawrence Gowan: Well, here's the thing. We're on the road together for nearly, nearly 200 days of the year quite honestly. And we play about a hundred shows.
So something around there. We all have this wonderful occurrence that happens at the end of our day. And that is that you know we join hands in front of thousands of people that are, who are on their feet with big smiles on their faces and you know their arms in the air. And there's such a joyous kind of exclamation point at the end of the day that it's hard to let any of the little trivialities of life intercede on that or impose themselves on that for too long anyway.
We have lots of, there's lots of disagreements and lots of, you know, moments that we have to patch over. But it's amazing how that shared experience on a daily basis helps us to forget those things very very quickly, far quicker than we would if we were, say guys in our 20s or 30s. Joann Butler: Right. Right.
Lawrence Gowan: You know, of which, by the way, there are no guys in their 20s or 30s in Styx today. I hate to disappoint. Joann Butler: No, I think that's what's so great about it, you know. That's really nice.
Lawrence Gowan: I think it is. I think that's one of the great things I love seeing about a band is, is that they kind of, that musical experience is shared by them and so their, their, you know their combined effort and their combined joy translates to the audience and then vice versa and then the next thing you know you got a great rock concert going on which is the greatest form of entertainment that I've ever encountered. Joann Butler: Beautiful. Oh, I love that.
And like you mentioned, Styx is going on tour with Chicago this summer, the Windy Cities tour, tell us all about that. Lawrence Gowan: That starts in mid July and that starts in West Palm Beach, Florida and concludes a couple of months later at the LA Forum in Los Angeles, California. Joann Butler: Nice. You'll be everywhere.
Lawrence Gowan: We're gonna be everywhere. I'm everywhere, man. Joann Butler: Do you have a favorite song that you perform? Lawrence Gowan: “Renegade.” Because I don't have to sing it.
Tommy gets to sing that one because it's his song. I love it because it's at the end of the night. I observe the audience and see just how emotionally they are, you know, putting it all out there by the time we get to that song because they've been through the full arc of the show. And wherever we've played around the world, you know, I often mention the audience in Japan and the audience in Sweden end up being very, almost identical by the end of the show in an emotional state.
And I love to see that because they're very different at the beginning of a show because they’re different personalities just like, you know, a New Jersey audience is different from a Texas audience at the beginning of a show. They just have a different kind of overall collective character, but eventually they end up like, that’s one of the things, it's almost like music funnels everyone into finally reaching this great, they've distilled it down to this wonderful connection that we have through music. And I love to observe it. Joann Butler: I love it.
That's so good. So, so, so good. Lawrence Gowan: Alright. Joann Butler: Oh, how is Chuck doing?
I was, I meant to ask you that. Lawrence Gowan: He is doing well. Chuck is doing very well. He'll join us probably for most of the summer tour.
Joann Butler: Excellent. Lawrence Gowan: And he is the comeback kid if there ever was one. I mean, you know, if you've ever read his book, Grand Illusion, it's all about his, you know, band starting in his basement and then him going through all the years of phenomenal, you know, success with the band prior to my joining. And then when I joined, he was in the struggle of his life, which was, you know, against HIV and AIDS.
And he has triumphed over that to the point now where they can't even detect it in him. So… Joann Butler: Oh, that's wonderful. Lawrence Gowan: He is the, he is the Iron Man.
Joann Butler: That's wonderful. Lawrence Gowan: Yeah. Joann Butler: Good. Good.
What's your creative process like with you guys when you're writing? Lawrence Gowan: It's, great question because it's never quite the same twice. Honestly, it's like on the late, on Circling From Above, for example, Will Evankovich, who's our producer, and guitarist, and singer, he might have a song that's completely formed or just a tiny little nugget. And then that nugget will go with a song that I've got that's either completely formed or just a nugget.
You know what I mean? By nugget, I mean just a little musical phrase that hasn't gone anywhere yet. And we may find a moment after hacking through it and jamming through it for a day or so where they can connect. Tommy Shaw, obviously the same thing you know, and then sometimes the three of us are in the room together staring at each other for the first two or three hours and then suddenly out of sheer boredom, suddenly something will happen that sparks our interest and we'll pursue it vehemently for the next few hours and then voila there's a, there's a brand new Styx song.
So, as I say, Joann, it's never, it's never the same twice. And it's just as surprising and almost, you know, almost miraculous when suddenly something emerges that, that you all look at each other and go, “I think I like that.” Because there's too many hours of like, “I think I don't like that.” Joann Butler: Really? Lawrence Gowan: Yeah. Kind of.
That, that's, that's a huge part of the whole way it works is, is sometimes you have to play through the things that you reject until finally something strikes you that sparks your curiosity and your, and your interest to pursue it, you know, to, to actually follow it through and the next thing you know, bang, you've got a song like “Circling From Above” or “Build And Destroy” or “Our Wonderful Lives,” you know? Things like that. Joann Butler: That's cool. Lawrence Gowan: Yeah.
Joann Butler: How do you keep it fresh? What inspires you? Lawrence Gowan: Shower every day. Number one, as fresh as we could be.
Honestly, music, it's a, there's a boundless destination or horizon, I would say, that continues to kind of present itself. You go on a journey to kind of, to see if you can get there. That really is how it's fresh. As far as, I know the flavor of the question is that, like how do you take a song, say “Renegade” that you've played like thousands of times and keep it fresh?
Well, the way I describe that, the way I feel is the closest thing to articulating an answer to that is that “Renegade,” although it's the same notes and the same words, etc. on every day. It's a different song every day because it's a bit like encountering your favorite painting or sculpture or something. You can look at it an infinite number of times and you'll still see something different there and you still will not have completely discerned or completely dissected every nuance of its meaning. And just by the mere fact that you've lived another day, there's a new layer that can be applied to that song.
I'll give you an example of that. When I first heard the song “Yesterday,” okay, let's take that one. So, I was a little kid at the time and “Yesterday” back then, all it meant to me was last night before I went to bed, right? You see what I mean?
But as your life unfolds, “Yesterday” takes on a much greater sense of meaning because it embraces far more of your life's experience and you can relate it to far more things. So if I heard Paul McCartney on his birthday today singing “Yesterday” today as opposed to yesterday when he sang “Yesterday,” sorry… Joann Butler: I got you. I know what you mean.
Lawrence Gowan: Yeah. You know what I mean? And I'll give you another example. “Satisfaction” by Rolling Stones, a song like that.
You see, you can, there's an endless feeling of what, you know, what a person who's now in his 80s is singing that song, how he means the lyrics and how it, how it comes across, than a guy in his 20s. So that's, to me how you keep it fresh. There are musicians who complain about having to play the same song again and again. And I would admonish them to say, you know, there are symphony players who are playing Beethoven and Mozart and Tchaikovsky pieces that are hundreds of years old and they're leaning into them just as much now as ever.
So buck up. Joann Butler: I didn't know it was Paul McCartney's birthday today. So now I know who your influences are. Lawrence Gowan: Yeah, I think he's 31.
Joann Butler: And what about your new music? Lawrence Gowan: The way that you keep that fresh, okay, is by allowing, okay, first of all, lyrically, more, almost more, almost more than musically. Lyrically, you need to, luckily with Tommy and with Will, we are very adverse to allowing cliches or the latest hip expression, unless it's something that's incredibly relevant to our time, creep into the lyrics or try to kind of use, you know, cliche phrases from the past. That's the biggest danger.
That's how you fall into a trap that I believe as a songwriter you fall into a trap of disingenuousness. Let's call it that. You know there's an insincerity to that. So for example we have a song on the new record called “Forgive.” I think it approaches that subject in a nuanced way.
I think nuance is the underlying goal, is to try to find a new way to attack, to, to approach a subject that perhaps has been, has been kicked around since man first walked the earth and woman, and child, and beast and see if you can provide some kind of new spin on it or something that, that, that connects to your life today. When you're doing that, it's almost like a natural progression that musically you'll begin to follow that in, in a musical sense as well. Bearing in mind that we always want to kind of connect the music to that classic rock sound and that era. That's an easier thing to do in that we just use a bunch of clunky old analog gear and play real instruments and don't rely on computers to piece it together for us or, you know, the latest AI magic that can make it sound like you're doing something incredible when you're not.
It's one of these endless pursuits and by just committing to that, you can keep things fresh. Joann Butler: That’s a good one. Another good answer. Lawrence Gowan: That and the shower thing.
Yeah. Joann Butler: That’s funny. What about Rock to the Rescue? Tell us about that.
Lawrence Gowan: Rock to the Rescue came about, and after, a few months after 9/11. It was initially to raise money for the families from the, entirely from the fire department from the New Jersey side that came over who lost I believe 37 men, and in order to help their families we put together this big rock festival type concert and it was very heartfelt and very authentic and music is, is, has been utilized in all forms of life, in all aspects of life and so many musicians threw themselves into it. Guys that we'd never met before and wanted to play with anyway. So it really worked.
Then after we did that for I think about three or four years, something like that, we moved away from it. But then we began to realize all these communities, cities, towns, you know, various places around the world quite honestly that the band have played, they've supported the band for, you know, nearly half a, over half a century now. But, so we revived it somewhere, somewhere around 2009 in order to kind of raise some money for a local charity everywhere we went. That's what Rock to the Rescue, so it comes down to like a few items are auctioned off every day.
Some guitars, and drum heads, and anything we can kind of dredge up that someone will pay an outrageous price for, for a good cause. And that's Rock to the Rescue. Joann Butler: Nice. Nice.
Lawrence Gowan: Yeah. Joann Butler: You play a lot of instruments. You don't just do, I've seen you play the guitar. Lawrence Gowan: Okay.
That's, that's, that's two. Joann Butler: How many do you play? Just two? Lawrence Gowan: Really I play one well enough to be a member of Styx and that would be the piano and keyboards.
As a guitarist, I do play guitar in my solo Gowan shows. Yes, I do. I do play guitar because I've got another really good guitarist onstage with me and I can get away with it. I like that because you, I've written songs from a guitar perspective, particularly in the 1990s I did and I had a number of solo hits with those songs and you know I also studied the clarinet and the, and the cello and I played a little bit of flute and the harmonica.
What else? And I play all of those badly. Joann Butler: And I saw you playing Rick Nielsen’s guitar on your Instagram. (Sound Up Lawrence Gowan) “Is that not the most iconic thing you've ever seen?
I love it.” Lawrence Gowan: That I played really well. But I just think, I just think the spirit was in that guitar and it kind of, it presented itself and I just, I wanted to get as many chords in as I could before someone said, "Hey, put that down." No, Rick Nielsen was, I love when we do shows with Cheap Trick because they're great fellas, but it's how these things emerge. I had looked at some of his guitars, just checked out some of them. And then I went backstage and went out into the parking lot and he's just standing there kind of, you know, getting a little bit of fresh air before the show.
And I said, “I was just looking at some of your guitars.” He goes, "Well, let's go look at ‘em." And I was like, "Okay, I'll take another look." And when we went back in, he methodically went through about 20 of the most iconic guitars that people have known for decades now. And then he allowed me to put them on and make a fool of myself. Which I'm very adept at doing. Joann Butler: You didn't.
You did really well. Lawrence Gowan: Thank you, Joann. That's very nice. Joann Butler: Aw, those guys must be fun to play with.
Lawrence Gowan: They are. Joann Butler: You still play with them a lot, right? Lawrence Gowan: Yeah. I mean, more this year than we have in quite a while.
And some of the bands we get to, we get to tour with like the summer tour we're about to do with Chicago. This will be our first time with them. Joann Butler: Oh, really? Lawrence Gowan: Yeah.
Our first time ever with a, you know, a co-headline bill, Styx and Chicago. But yeah, some of the, Def Leppard and the guys in REO and Foreigner, as the last time you and I spoke. These are all wonderful guys to tour with. You know, we tour with Boston.
Joann Butler: Iconic. Lawrence Gowan: I can keep going. Cheap Trick are always tons of fun. Lover Boy, I love those guys.
They're my fellow Canadian band. They're great to tour with as well. Joann Butler: I love it. Lawrence Gowan: Yeah.
Joann Butler: You were with your brother before that in Canada, right? Way back. Were you always a Styx fan? Lawrence Gowan: Oh, yeah.
I mean I, growing up in the 70s, first of all what, what came to my attention with Styx was they were the first band that were not from the UK, not from Britain that were putting progressive rock influences into their music and because I'm classically trained and oriented and all that, I love Genesis and Yes and Pink Floyd and Jethro Tull, and I noticed you know they're all British bands and then when I noticed, oh Styx, they were the first ones that were doing it and doing it successfully. Like there were bands that were attempting it but couldn't quite crack it as to how you, and, and I love the Chicago kind of sensibility that they had in their lyrics, was really relatable because I'm from Toronto and it's another kind of Great Lake city and there's some connection there. Styx were extremely popular in Canada. Partic- initially, particularly in Quebec and so I would hear them all the time and then you know I had songs that I really loved by the, I remember hearing “Crystal Ball” for the first time and cranking the radio up like crazy because I just thought “What a great tune.
And what a great little journey it's taking us on.” And by the way, this year is the 50th anniversary of that song. I have to point that out to the audience every night. I mean, Tommy Shaw sings that song as well now, if not better than ever. Joann Butler: Wow.
Yeah. Lawrence Gowan: That’s something, to be on stage, to embrace night after night. Joann Butler: He’s amazing, too. Yeah.
Lawrence Gowan: He is, he is. Joann Butler: The way you guys move on stage is just, it's amazing. Yeah. It just keeps getting better and better.
Lawrence Gowan: Oh, yeah. Because when you hit the stage, you're kind of ageless. You don't, you're connected to yourself as a teenager immediately. That's what rock music, that, that's what it evokes in you and that's what it inspires and then you pay the price for it the next morning.
Joann Butler: Right. Right. You've been with the band for so long, but how did you come together? Like who got you in?
Was it Tommy? Lawrence Gowan: Yeah, kind of. In 1997, so two years before I, I've been in the band now, this is my 27th year. In ‘97, I’d had quite a number of multi-platinum hits in Canada as a solo artist.
Never had a record released in the States unfortunately, but, promoter put us together in the new Montreal Forum which is you know about an 18 or 19,000 seat hockey arena in Montreal and that year I was touring completely solo on piano and when the guys in Styx heard the audience singing all these songs they came and they were kind of all standing side stage watching it and they, Tommy made the comment to me when I came off he said “Man that worked out great, we got to work together again in future.” And so when they called in ‘99, early ‘99, my assumption was that, “Oh, I get to open shows for Styx,” but I didn't want to do them in Canada because I was able to headline there. I was hoping that Tommy would say, “Can you do this in the US?” Because my hope was that now that the internet was here, I could finally get some of my records listened to by an American audience. But very quickly the conversation shifted to “No, we would like you to join the band because you were suggested by the promoter, first of all we saw you, second of all the promoter, that guy named Donald K. Donald thinks that you're the right guy, and the lady that runs, Kim, who runs Tommy's website, she said “He's the right guy.”” So when I showed up at Tommy's house, which was really a true Hollywood story because he lived at that time in Los Angeles, right, it was the closest house to the Hollywood sign.
It was literally in eyesight from where we were singing together. When I came in, I was ready to play “Grand Illusion” and I think “Crystal Ball” and “Come Sail Away” and I prepared those over a couple of days and he stopped me before I played. He said, "Don't, don't, don't play a Styx song. Play…”.
There was one song I had called “A Criminal Mind” and I played that, and it was a hit for me, a big song for me and he remembered it from the show and I played it and he said, "Okay, we should make that a Styx song now." So that's on a couple of Styx records. So I felt immediately kind of embraced by this band and I just basically wanted to not think that they'd made a poor choice. Joann Butler: No, I don't think they did. Lawrence Gowan: Well, thank you.
Joann Butler: I think they did good. Lawrence Gowan: Okay. Joann Butler: And then you got your brother in like you said. Lawrence Gowan: Well, I didn't get my brother in, funny enough.
That came through Todd because, when I started playing my solo Gowan shows between all these Styx shows. I started playing them again in 2010 and have every year since. Todd came up and played drums. He's played more Gowan shows as a drummer than anyone.
And Terry was the bass player. So they became a very formidable rhythm section over the course of those shows. So when we needed someone, they asked Todd first, "Do you have someone you'd like to be on base?" He said, "Terry." And then I heard it the next day and he, I said, "Actually, he's like a great choice. He knows the material.
He, you know, I think he'll fit in really well with everyone." And he has. So it's been great. Joann Butler: Great. And tell us about your solo stuff, too.
You're, you do other stuff as well. Lawrence Gowan: Styx as I, as I mentioned, Styx plays about a hundred shows a year, and I get, in between those I do about 20 to 25, last year I did 25 Gowan shows, just as my last name, I came out in the 1980s on CBS records in Canada and back in the 80s as you know you were only allowed one name so it was just Gowan, so those records have, are still played on the radio there, a lot. People grew up with those songs and so I love going out and playing them and I love, because I'll play the same venue with Styx a few months later, you know, or prior to, so it's a funny thing as I go along from coast to coast doing that as well. Joann Butler: That's so cool.
Lawrence Gowan: Yeah. Joann Butler: How does it differ for you? Lawrence Gowan: Well, the great thing about being in a band as I, as it took me years to learn, is that you can lean on the other individuals. It doesn't all come down to you to answer every, every little question because, especially at first I loved the fact that, to kind of infuse myself into a band mentality, that took a while.
It really did, but I eventually kind of got it, I guess, because I'm still in it. They didn't kick me out. And that's a great thing to be around. And on the other hand, the counter to that is that when you're a solo artist, you've been involved in every single note to some degree.
I've had tremendous musicians on my solo records and I get to kind of connect with that again. I mean, Alex Lifeson from Rush was the guitarist on one of my albums for the entire record. Jon Anderson from Yes is on one of my records. Even Robert Fripp did a little bit of a, an intro on one of the songs.
Who else can I mention? Of course, Jerry Marotta, who's the drummer from Peter Gabriel and Paul McCartney, for one album. He's been a tremendous part of my solo records. Tony Levin, of course, who's from, you know, Peter Gabriel, and King Crimson, and Paul Simon, John Lennon, you know, he, so, these are some of my favorite, I've had the opportunity, the blessing, blessed opportunity to work with some of the musicians that I really admired growing up.
And so there are, having them on my solo records and having such a faithful audience that's been with it for years. I have to address that to some degree at this point in my life, I don't want to let that, let that go either. And I don't have to because… Joann Butler: It's so nice that you don't have to.
Yeah. Yeah. It's great. Great for us, too, that you're able to do both.
It's great. Lawrence Gowan: Yeah. Thank you. Joann Butler: I love it.
I love that. What does music do for people? Lawrence Gowan: That is a question that even Beethoven couldn't answer. He, there's a great letter he writes that he doesn't really understand what music is, why it affects people.
So I'm not going to presume that I can fully answer that. I do, I would say that over the course of my life, first of all, it has this unbelievable ability to emotionally engage human beings. And we don't exactly know why because it's just vibration. It somehow communicates with us on a very profound and deep level.
And it inevitably enriches our lives. And if it enriches your life enough, you'll never go through a single day without embracing it at least to some degree. And if you're as connected to it as musicians are, have to be, you'll find that it's just incredibly addictive. I mean, look at how we end our day, as I mentioned before, with, there's thousands of people with the biggest smiles on their faces and arms in the air and in this joyous state.
And all we did was really make some noise for a few hours. And it's elicited this phenomenal response that, that's, you know, it's a language, a language that we cannot fully comprehend. We can't completely decipher. It just does the most wonderful things to people.
I highly recommend it, because as, as I mentioned, the rock, a great rock show, is the greatest form of entertainment I've ever encountered. All the friends I know even from high school who've stayed connected to the music that they've always loved and found new things. They seem to have lived better lives. I'll go as far as to say that.
So, I'd say it does that for you. Joann Butler: That's good. You did good. Lawrence Gowan: Okay.
Joann Butler: Better than Mozart. Lawrence Gowan: All right. Joann Butler: I love it. Anything else you want to tell me that we didn't cover?
Lawrence Gowan: Oh, there's lots, but we can cover it next time. Joann Butler: Next time we have to do it in person. We're in Times Square. Lawrence Gowan: That would be a great place to do it.
Joann Butler: I know. Let's definitely do that. Well, thank you so much. You're a pleasure to speak with.
Lawrence Gowan: Well, great to talk to you again Joann and I look forward to our Times Square rendezvous one of these days. Joann Butler: Yes. Let's make that happen. Lawrence Gowan: I love that.
There'll be plenty of characters around to chat about. Not just us. Joann Butler: Can't wait to talk to you again. Lawrence Gowan: I look forward to it.
And I'm impressed at the fact that those butterflies didn't fly away for the whole interview. Joann Butler: I'll let them go now. Lawrence Gowan: Yeah, let them go. Set them free.
Set them free. Joann Butler: Like the starlings. Didn't ask you about those. I forgot.
Lawrence Gowan: Ah, the starlings. Next time Joann Butler: Was good. Yes. Lawrence Gowan: The starlings of Times Square.
All right. Bye, Joann. Joann Butler: Bye, Lawrence.
