Joann Butler: What are the biggest misconceptions about The Police? Stewart Copeland: Everybody thinks Sting broke my rib. I broke his rib. Joann Butler: Why did you feel like it had to be a three-piece band?
Stewart Copeland: Because, well, more room in the car. And that's how Jimi Hendrix and Cream did it. My first drum teacher was the drummer in an Armenian strip club in Beirut. I bang stuff but there's no mental activity at all.
It's entirely visceral. Sting, I told you not to call me when I'm working. Okay? Joann Butler: Sting.
What are you doing? Hey I’m Joann Butler in studio with… Stewart Copeland: Stewart Copeland and you’re watching your TV. It’s tuned to LifeMinute.
Joann Butler: Woohoo! Stewart Copeland in the house. Yay! Welcome to LifeMinute.
Stewart Copeland: Well, thank you. Thanks for having me. Joann Butler: We're so honored to have you. Stewart Copeland: Aw shucks.
Joann Butler: How are you doing? Stewart Copeland: Oh, excellent. Here it's a bright sunny morning in New York City. Not too hot yet.
About two hours from now, we will all be sweltering. Joann Butler: Yes, for sure. Tell us about your tour that's happening right now. Stewart Copeland: Oh, well, I'm out there across the land.
Actually mostly small towns and nice little bijou theaters and such where I get to have you know a group of people where I tell my tall tales, get laughs and it's like a show only I don't have to drag around a crew and a band and gear and everything. Just sit in an easy chair like this and tell stories onto the world and get laughs, you know. I've discovered the whole art form of standup comedy. Of course I'm sitting in an easy chair.
But the same concept where you go out there and just light up a room with nothing but stories and gags. Joann Butler: That's so cool. And you haven't done that before? Stewart Copeland: I have now.
Joann Butler: Thought about it. Stewart Copeland: But never thought about it until about a year ago or maybe. Yeah, maybe a year ago. A wild-eyed English promoter said, "How about you do a little tour, you know, of small towns,” which is very different.
So I played a tour of England, not Manchester, not Birmingham, London, but East Twickenham and you know Stow-on-the-Wold and Chelmsford, these little towns. But the vibe is very cool because people out there, they just got to drive to, you know, around a block instead of into the big city and there's just a much more intimate atmosphere for getting laughs. Joann Butler: That's so cool. Have I Said Too Much?
Stewart Copeland: Probably. Joann Butler: Is the name. Why now? What made you want to?
Stewart Copeland: Well, like I said, an English promoter, it occurred to him. It never occurred to me that I just go out there and make a living talking to people. And by the way, this, I don't make a living out of show business really anymore. I'm kind of retired from that.
I make music pretty much as a hobby these days. You know, I make my YouTube clips and stick them up for all to enjoy with no agenda or commercial plan. Joann Butler: Does that feel different in any way, like playing now? Stewart Copeland: Yes.
It's a lot more fun to do music as a hobby, particularly drums. You know, banging stuff, when I did it for serious, professionally, if you like, it was, you know, it was cool. I enjoyed playing concerts, but the physicality of it, the training for it, getting, you know, the practicing up to muscle up to play a, you know, two and a half hour rock show. You know, it's, it was always like part of my job, but recently I've discovered, you know, I turned on, you know, your Spotify, cursed be its name, and kind of a cool groove going on.
So, my drums are right there. So, I just, and I've rediscovered banging stuff as recreation. Joann Butler: That's so cool. You've had a really unique childhood.
Tell us for those who don't know what it was like growing up. Your dad was in the CIA. Stewart Copeland: Well, yes. My father was a spook.
CIA in the Middle East. His job was to sustain a system of despots, dictators and bleep heads. And, to keep the oil flowing to us rather than to the evil empire of the Soviet Union. I was, grew up in Cairo and in Lebanon, and didn't, I left when I was two months old and didn't get back till I was 18.
So after Lebanon I was shipped off to England, boarding school in England. Staving off an English accent the whole time because I'm American. Gosh darn it. Joann Butler: Did you always know you had music in you?
Stewart Copeland: It came and got me whether I knew it or not. I had lots of other jobs. I was roadie, tour manager, radio DJ in Berkeley, California. I started all kinds of other career prospects, but the music kept dragging me back and I just kept finding myself, there was like roadie-ing for the band or tour managing or whatever and eventually I found myself in the band.
Couldn't help it. Joann Butler: How old were you when you started drumming and you realized this is… Stewart Copeland: Oh, about 12. Joann Butler: Wow.
Stewart Copeland: And it actually arose because in Beirut, in the American community school there, ACS, our high school, the band, the Black Knights, needed a drummer. And at 12 I played my first show at the American Embassy Beach Club. Joann Butler: Oh my god. And up to that point, did you, were you like self-taught or did you have training?
Stewart Copeland: Oh no. My father was a jazz musician as well as CIA spook. Before the war, he was actually a professional jazz player. I've still got his trumpet, you know.
And I'm the youngest of four. So, when the first three went by and he was trying to put musical instruments into their hands and none of it stuck, but I came along, the last one finally, I just grabbed all those instruments, quickly broke them, and ended up banging on anything that would, that didn't dodge. So he immediately got me into lessons. My first drum teacher was the drummer in an Armenian strip club in Beirut.
Taught me how to set up the drums and hold my sticks. Joann Butler: Wow. You hold them very uniquely. Stewart Copeland: Not uniquely.
It's orthodox. You see, this is your modern drummers these days, like that. But old school. Joann Butler: Yes.
Stewart Copeland: Like this. Joann Butler: Yes. Like an old jazz player. Stewart Copeland: There's a reason for that, because in olden times the snare drum was a marching instrument and they would march along with their snare drum like this.
But it's ungainly, bangs on your knees. So they turn it on an angle which means the drum is like that or like this. So to make it easier, like that. And so I was raised by an Armenian strip club drummer who taught me orthodox grip and that kind of stuck.
Joann Butler: Oh my gosh. It's astounding how you can come up with that sound like that. But do, you mix it up sometimes right? Stewart Copeland: Well, no.
Because the thumb is a very strong finger. Joann Butler: Right. Okay. Stewart Copeland: Although really it's not about the strength of your fingers, it's about the bounce of the wood.
The less pressure you apply, the more you let the stick bounce of its own free will, the slicker you can be and the more power you can derive. Joann Butler: Your playing is so otherworldly with your stops and your suspensions and all that stuff you do. Stewart Copeland: Negative space. That's the reggae negative space which painters and artists, visual artists know what I'm talking about.
Where you create power in an absence. And in reggae it's all about that hold. That little hold there, we call that negative space. Rock and roll does ordinarily not have a lot of negative space.
It's mostly full-on in your face space. But in music, well also, this also I got from growing up immersed in Arabic music which I wasn't listening to at all, but it was surrounding me just entering my DNA, involuntarily. And so they also have a lot of use of negative space in their rhythms. Joann Butler: Right.
So all along growing up with all the places you've been I guess… Stewart Copeland: Well it just made it easier for me to cop the reggae riffs than it was for other artists. Joann Butler: And you do it so well. That's what I was going to ask.
Is it just, Well, it's obviously innate, too. Innate in you. Stewart Copeland: Yeah, I think it's a gift. And as proof of that, the job of drummer for the high school band was first offered to my brother Ian, because just, he was so cool.
He was cool. He was the Fonz in high school. So, “Let's get him on drums.” But he couldn't do it. But I could.
And I don't know if you have an older sibling or anything. Joann Butler: Sure. Stewart Copeland: But older, your older brother or sister is better at everything. And so it was strange for me to actually get on these drums and actually be able to do something better than my older brother.
That's weird. “I must be doing it wrong,” I thought, at the time. And that's been my secret sauce ever since. Joann Butler: I love it.
I love it. Ian and Miles, in music, too. The booker and the manager. Stewart Copeland: Yeah.
I would say actually for all your viewers out there that my two brothers Miles and Ian are the two most important managers in the history of rock and roll. Joann Butler: I agree. Stewart Copeland: Discuss if you will. Any debate on that?
Dispute on that? Joann Butler: No, I agree. I agree. Stewart Copeland: Well, I'll say that.
Okay, I'll explain. You know, you had your, you know, other managers would manage the Beatles, the Stones, or Led Zeppelin, but Miles and Ian managed every darn buddy of the 80s and late 70s. The Police, R.E.M., Go-Go’s, Bengals, as well as the British band Squeeze and such, and even Wishbone Ash going back into the Prague era. And in fact, those two guys were responsible for an entire British invasion in the early 80s of that new romantic stuff.
You have my two brothers to thank for those screwed up hair-dos. Joann Butler: It's amazing. Amazing. What does your sister do?
Stewart Copeland: She actually is a writer. She's written several books, kind of, and also she made commercial films and sort of, out of the entertainment industry but still in media. Joann Butler: Yeah. Yeah.
Creative. Yeah, that era like, when they knew you could play like that, how far into that career were they in? Like were they already booking bands? When did they book?
Stewart Copeland: My brother booked, got me the gig with the, the Black Knights, the high school band when I was 12. So he was my agent from when I was 12 up until we sadly lost him, half a century later. Joann Butler: He must have been like, he saw like, a cash register… Stewart Copeland: Well at first they were horrified because up to then I'd been a roadie and you know and summer jobs, roadie-ing for all of the bands that they managed and so on.
Where I learned all about the gear and then I was a tour manager. I learned all about how the band works. And then one day I actually joined a band and I crossed to the other side, and to the horror of my siblings, my two brothers, I became one of them. The talent.
Joann Butler: Right. Stewart Copeland: Which is an entirely different deal. Joann Butler: How so? Stewart Copeland: Well, because as roadie, and one of them, I'm you know, your viewers can't see this, but there's a horde of black clad crew and technicians who make all this stuff happen, right?
But then when you cross into the light, hello lights, you become the talent which means that you can expand on hitherto undisclosed neurosis such as, anything, you know, and you become much more neurotic when you're under the lights than you are when you're a nameless blackclad figure just doing your job, so the talent is a lot more complicated to deal with than the crew. Joann Butler: I thought you would be like this, you don't have that air about you and we've interviewed… Stewart Copeland: Oh, yes I do. Joann Butler: Oh you do?
Stewart Copeland: What are you saying? Joann Butler: No, in a good way. Like you're, you know, you’re just, cool. Stewart Copeland: Well, you know, you go, you know, I've been, I've been to the mountain, and when you've been up the mountain, you don't need to put on any airs.
Joann Butler: Yeah, you sure have. Literally. Literally and figuratively. Early musical influences?
Stewart Copeland: Well I was raised on jazz which is why I don't play jazz. That was my dad, while my mother was playing Stravinsky, Carl Orf, W.C., Ravel, 20th century composers, and that stuck, that's still going around in my head up until the age of say 16 when Jimi Hendrix showed up and that was it for trombones and everything, that was it. You know, and so as a teenager walking down the street I'd have Rites of Spring in one half of my brain and you know, Jimi Hendrix in the other half of my brain and I guess the mix is where I, and who I am musically. Joann Butler: So cool.
What was the first record you ever bought? Stewart Copeland: Help! by The Beatles. I listened to my parents’ record collections, not so much my father's Stan Kenton and Woody Herman. Although I did pick up on Buddy Rich and my mother's classical music, but my own first record, and I didn't even select it myself.
A friend of mine was going to England, so I gave him some money and said, "Bring me back something English." And he came back with the album Help! and up to then I'd been listening to my siblings’ record collections and parents’, but this is my own first record. Joann Butler: Wow. Stewart Copeland: I wasn't even that big a Beatles fan. I am a bigger Beatles fan now than I was as a kid.
Joann Butler: Me, too. Stewart Copeland: Because having grown up and my ears gotten a little more sophisticated, and now that I know what they were doing, I'm way more impressed by what they did. Joann Butler: That's so interesting. Stewart Copeland: I mean, I think the Beatles, I'm not even a Beatles fan, but I recognize that they are the number one, top pop group ever so far on the planet.
Hang on just a second. Hang on just a second. Sting, I told you not to call me when I'm working. Okay?
Say hello. Joann Butler: Sting. What are you doing? Hello.
Stewart Copeland: We'll talk later. Joann Butler: This is what his show is gonna be. Stewart Copeland: All right. Joann Butler: So funny.
Beatles. Stewart Copeland: Beatles. Yes, we were on Beatles. Joann Butler: I totally agree.
That's so cool that you said that, because I didn't get it. I mean, I liked them, but I am still, they’re still not my favorite. Stewart Copeland: You know, looking back, you know, knowing what I know now, I realize, you know, Sgt. Pepper was recorded on eight tracks.
Are you kidding? No one could do that these days. And their artistry, they covered everything from soft poignant to raging metal, you know, they were a heavy metal band at times. And Ringo on the drums, so inventive and so solid.
When I was a kid, I wanted more drum fills. I was more into Mitch Mitchell and Buddy Rich for that matter. And I didn't really get Ringo or Charlie Watts for that matter, until growing up and appreciating the subtlety and the imagination of what they did. Joann Butler: I love that.
You want to put your phone anywhere? Stewart Copeland: Well, I got a couple calls to make. Do you mind? Joann Butler: Nope.
Not, take your time. Call them all up. Stewart Copeland: Mick Jagger's probably going to call any minute now, so you know, let's keep the lines open. Joann Butler: I wouldn't be surprised.
And I was gonna say, and The Police was kind of like the Beatles, like kind of short, you weren’t together that long. Stewart Copeland: Well, our glib comment was, "Hey, everyone says that you're the Beatles of the 80s." Well, and our glib smartass returned, joined with, the Beatles were The Police of the 60s. Joann Butler: Right. Stewart Copeland: You know, this kind of stuff just slips out when you're rising up.
Joann Butler: When you're under the lights on the other side. It is true if you look at it now, like what, you know… Stewart Copeland: Well every band has its day, you know, after us there was Metallica and after them there was somebody else is the biggest band in the world for about 10 minutes. Joann Butler: I don't think so, I think this lasts longer.
I'd say you're right up there with the Beatles for sure. Stewart Copeland: Well actually it's generational. I was once in, I'm going to drop some names here. Okay.
Get over it. I'm at Eddie Vedder’s birthday party. Ringo's there, with whom I get along really well. And, Eddie's like, “It's selfie time” and like Eddie's all like leaning into me to get a shot with me and I “Dude, dude that's a f****** Beatle on the other side of you over there, man.” You know, “Hello?” But I realize that humans are like ducks.
When a duck bursts out of its shell, the first warm body it sees is mama, you know. And when humans hit 16 and they burst out of the cocoon, the first raging guitar they see is daddy, you know? And for me, that was Jimi Hendrix. And for Eddie Vedder, that was me.
Or for me, that was the Beatles in a way. So for Eddie, and his generation, a Beatle is sort of like Frank Sinatra or something, you know. Yeah, absolutely. Respect, respect, respect.
But his personal daddy, he was 16 when The Police were busting out and so that for him is a bigger deal which for me, you know, how can that be? That's not right. Eddie, that's a Beatle gosh darn it. Joann Butler: I was eight I think when you busted out and I was like that, but I don't know if that's so true I mean…
Stewart Copeland: Well no for you, when you were 16 who was on top? Joann Butler: Eddie. Stewart Copeland: Yeah, right. There you go.
Well, that group of Eddie, of Pearl Jam, Foo Fighters, Rage Against the Machine even. You know? Joann Butler: Soundgarden. Stewart Copeland: They were all 16 when I was doing my thing.
So, I go in that bandwidth of artists and stuff and they throw rose petals before me as I enter the room and I get a great ride from those folks. Joann Butler: That’s awesome. I love it. I love it.
Well, they have good taste. But you're definitely a musician's musician. I mean, I don't think it's just an age thing. It's everywhere.
I mean, and you're so modest about it. Stewart Copeland: Yes, I'm a musician's musician, not so much a singer's musician. Joann Butler: No, why not? Stewart Copeland: Well, a singer who's singing songs of great sociopolitical import, you know, and emotional insight, doesn't necessarily need World War III going on over his left shoulder.
Joann Butler: What do you mean by that? Stewart Copeland: Me. Joann Butler: I know. What do you, what do you mean?
Stewart Copeland: Banging stuff. Joann Butler: I don't know. Everybody needs you banging stuff, I think. Stewart Copeland: Unless you're a singer.
Unless you're a singer-songwriter. Joann Butler: I don't know. But, you know how people have their favorite Beatle? You're my favorite Policeman.
Stewart Copeland: Oh, shucks. Joann Butler: Don't tell anybody. Don't tell anybody when they call. What's your drumming advice for somebody starting out?
Stewart Copeland: Relax mainly. Eat your wheaties and your vegetables and relax. Do your rudiments because that just makes everything easier. Reduce the exertion and use the bounce.
Relax for power. I think it's generally recognized that the biggest banger, most powerful delivery would be John Bonham. He just somehow made his drums sound like moving mountains. And although his wooden sticks hit the drums very forcefully, he himself is very relaxed.
It's a, it's a flick rather than a whack. Joann Butler: Do you think some drummers think they have to hit it hard to get a mighty sound? Stewart Copeland: Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. Joann Butler: That's what they're doing wrong. Stewart Copeland: And particularly that band with the musicians who are all now in their 50s, you know, I'm in my 70s and I see, you know, Chad Smith, you know, with his hands in buckets of ice after the show and I think “That used to be me,” but then I started playing with symphony orchestra, and now an orchestra, although there's 80 of them on stage with you, they're little wooden instruments that are that big and it's acoustic. So, a modern drum set, which is designed to withstand the impact of a 200 watt Marshall amplifier, it just blows them all away.
Just one snare drum crack will obliterate an orchestra or a crash symbol, forget it. You lose the next, you know, two bars of music, which I wouldn't really care about much except, unless I wrote that music, which I want to hear it. So I had to take my technique way down in volume, which is where I discovered that taking the dynamic range from like 9 to 13, you know, guitarists go to 11, but drummers go to 13. I took it down to zero to 13.
And all that space there, for one thing, the drums sound better. For another thing, all kinds of technique that is irrelevant in rock and roll, you know, because it's too subtle, it just doesn't read. And nobody gets a headache. But, so that, but that volume I get much more dynamic range which equals power.
So I can be going along really something like, bang, you know and it has much more impact if it's surrounded by, you know, less. So relax for power. Joann Butler: Interesting. And so you didn't always know that?
You kind of learned that as you went? Stewart Copeland: I did. Joann Butler: Wow. Stewart Copeland: When I was, you know in a, 20 something in a punk band, The Police.
We were a fake punk band. But we still had that, like that. I was killing it. Well, the good news is that during my, you know, 20s and 30s, I worked hard for a living chopping wood for two hours every night, which actually had a beneficial effect now that I'm elderly.
I'm very glad that as a youth, I was forced involuntarily to be very fit. I would never do that on my own, but my job kept me strong. Joann Butler: Right. Right.
Stewart Copeland: And I didn't realize how strong until I picked up the guitar. Well, I'd always play guitar. But one summer over in Italy, because I can, I had a band and I was in the front of the band playing guitar and singing on the mic in the front. And I discovered that it's way easier.
Just the exertion involved is nothing. There's a reason why guitarists and singers go on stage with coats and hats and capes and sequins and feathers and s***. You know, drummers can't do that. We're in a t-shirt because we're working hard, way, we're carrying the band all the way down the highway on our broad shoulders.
And as a guitarist, I'm looking back at the drummer going, "Man, that guy's working way harder." And I, whenever I see Dave Grohl, I always take the opportunity to beat, bust him up about that. “Come on, dude. You know that, you know how much easier this guitar gig is than the drummer gig. Come on, fess up.” Joann Butler: Right?
He would know, right? Oh, that's so funny. Bass guitar you play, or regular guitar? Stewart Copeland: Oh, I love bass.
That's my favorite instrument to play. Bass players are my favorite kind of musicians. We bond, you know. Joann Butler: Yes.
Stewart Copeland: Every band needs a bass player to translate for the drummer. Joann Butler: How does it come for you when you're creating songs like you know… Stewart Copeland: Out of the ether. I don't know where it comes from.
I know that that too is a gift. There's two things going on here. One of, I bang stuff but there's no mental activity at all. It's entirely visceral.
Just make it up. That's why I'm not the greatest session player because I forget the arrangement and I don't care. I'm banging here, and it's a physical mindless exercise that I enjoy a lot and it's instinctive. Composing is entirely, it's entirely intellectual.
There are many musicians that I know who are not composers. They play with incredible passion and talent and inspiration but they don't invent melodies. They play songs that they know and they learn them and they play them. They do cool things with them.
They take a guitar solo as a form of composition. But the part where you actually conceive of something, a piece of music in your head and create it and like put it onto a score for an orchestra, that's an entirely different mental exercise, a different part of the brain, a different part of the soul. And I really don't know where it comes from, but there is a river that flows through my head. There's always, ask me for a tune and I will whistle you a new tune, just like, it just comes out.
Doesn't mean to say it's any good or that anyone else will like it, but it's there. And I know great musicians, you know, like a virtuoso violinist that I know, you know, first chair at the Met, you know, serious musician, incredible. You know, she will play Verdi and break your heart and she'll say, “You know, this summer I'm gonna, I'm gonna write a violin concerto.” And I'm thinking, “No, you're not.” If you had that gene, if you had that composing gift, you would have written five concerti by now. And it's, it's granted to some musicians and not to others.
You know, my composition gift doesn't go along with a singing voice. So, I don't write songs so much, but I write, you know, a concerto for a giant orchestra instead. Joann Butler: Yes. Stewart Copeland: Which is a kind of a different musical format.
Joann Butler: Yes. And you've done TV and film as well. Stewart Copeland: Oh, I did that. Well, that's where I learned all the chops.
And I say that the film composer has the widest set of musical skills and he's not even an artist. You know, the artist that a film composer works for is the director and you, you're a craftsman serving his art. But in the service of his art under the harsh yoke of cruel employ you learn much more than you ever would as an artist following your own path and your own instinct. You know Billie Eilish, we don't want her learning.
We want her to do her unique amazing thing, but that's all she can do. That's all she wants to do and that's all she needs to do. Sure. But the humble film composer is forced to go everywhere because film covers science fiction, period drama, romcom, psycho drama, every aspect and period and culture of the human experience.
Film goes there and the film composer has to go there and you're forced to learn. You know, my first gig, my boss, Francis Coppola, turns around and says, "I think we need strings." I had to go out and learn how to do strings. And that began my love affair with the, with the orchestra, with orchestral musicians. Joann Butler: What was that for again?
Stewart Copeland: That was for a film called Rumble Fish. Joann Butler: Rumble Fish. Stewart Copeland: A very obscure cult movie. I was forced to go learn a new thing by my boss.
Don't be afraid of selling your soul to the devil. And I said this, I think it was last night in, whatever show I was doing there, and I said, “Youngsters, do not be afraid to sell your soul to Satan.” And a guy stands up in priestly garb and says “Actually no. Can you, no, don't.” And I said, he was actually, he had just written a really good question that I was answering. And so I, “Okay, okay, not Satan.
Not, do not, do not sell your soul to Satan. No. Beelzebub? Maybe.” Joann Butler: Did you ever feel like that?
Like when you were making it big like, “I'm selling my soul” like… Stewart Copeland: No. Joann Butler: Okay, good. Stewart Copeland: Conscience.
What's that? Joann Butler: Well, it's stupid anyway. Like… Stewart Copeland: No.
Artistically, if it turns me on and excites me, I don't care if it's for a Mountain Dew commercial or for whatever. I get into it. Joann Butler: Cool. Stewart Copeland: And by the way, the Mountain Dew commercial pays better.
Joann Butler: Oh, I bet. Stewart Copeland: And might you get you on the Super Bowl. Joann Butler: Oh, yeah. That’s for sure.
Stewart Copeland: That's the biggest brag for commercial composers, is you do an ad for, you know, an insurance company or Mountain Dew, but you get, your ad plays at the Super Bowl. It's like the Grammys. Yeah I've played a couple Super Bowls. They don't give me no ring.
You know, I should get a ring. Joann Butler: Yeah, you should. Oh, let's talk about The Police a little. How did that all come to be?
It was you that kind of orchestrated that. Stewart Copeland: Well, at the end of, as the Prague scene was winding down and culture was saved by The Sex Pistols, and the punk revolution really inspired me because I was too young to be a hippie anyway. I was born in the 50s and by the time I came up the hippie thing was kind of old and done and just being recirculated. So I wanted my own band and it had to be a three-piece band.
Which meant that either the guitarist or the bass player needs to sing. Joann Butler: Why did you feel like it had to be a three-piece band? Stewart Copeland: Because, well, more room in the car. And that's how Jimi Hendrix and Cream did it.
And in that sort of band, there's generally less emphasis on the song and more emphasis on the playing, which is what I want to do. I'm not so concerned about the song. I'm basically as a drummer viscerally banging stuff. I don't, you know, it's instinctive like I was saying.
So, I found a guitarist, Henry Padovani, he had recently been a Santana fan, but one day dropped acid, cut his hair, and became a punk. And he had his own amp. You're in. And then Sting, I saw playing a show up in Newcastle and, very long story which I won't bore you with here.
But I persuaded him to come down to London. I told him I had a band and I had songs and everything which I did, really crap songs. But since I was the only, when he came down to London and when I played him my dumb song, fake punk songs, songs of convenience, if you will, you know, “Clowns Revenge” and such, he didn't run away because this fast talking American in London was the only connection he had in the big city. So, he stuck it out until Andy joined, who was musically very sophisticated.
And that's when Sting's ears pricked up and he started writing songs and the rest is history. Joann Butler: Wow. What are your best memories of that time? The good times.
Stewart Copeland: Ah, there are a lot, a lot of chuckles, but strangely I think most band members or artists that you would talk to would probably tell you the same thing. It's exciting. You're getting what you always wanted, too much of what you always wanted, but there's a strange anxiety that goes with it. And I would describe it as social vertigo.
Where your voice rings a little, with too much authority, where your actions have too much impact, your jokes are funnier, light people up, your barbs cut deeper, and you start to feel that you, you're like, you're used to driving a car, but now you're driving a Mack Truck, which is the avatar, not yourself. You know, it's the avatar that moves in the world and people see and they build that avatar in their own mind from the records that they hear, the pictures they see, interviews they might see, they build an image and that's this Mack Truck that you're carrying around. You walk into a room, you don't know anybody there, but they all know you. And there's an anxiety that goes with that, the social vertigo.
And I've talked to many, in fact, I'm writing a book about that. How to survive your mojo. Kind of a handbook for the young ones dealing with this strange elevated status in society that has no logic behind it. You know, you should really revere your dentist or your doctor or many, your architects who build the houses that we live in.
And yet it's people who twang on guitars and bang drums who get this strange exalted status. And it's a little unsettling to the subject of all this attention. And so this, it's actually, the book is, although I think it's a really deep subject that the psychological journey of what happens to you when you're immersed in that attention, whether you're a professional like a musician or an actor or you're a civilian suddenly elevated into the national consciousness through some act of villainy or heroism one or the other. But it's a strange journey and so this book is about, that's the theory but actually it's spinal tap in book form.
Joann Butler: Cool. Well, how do you, you know, relieve yourself of that or what? Stewart Copeland: Well, by remembering, separating your person from your persona. The person that's out there that everybody sees is not actually you.
You still have a stomach ache and you're busting for a leak, you know. But that persona there is inviable. In fact, it's sort of, I would describe celebrities as sort of demi gods. We're not real gods because we can't change the weather.
And for another thing, we're gonna die. But the avatar is the real thing. Can't change the weather, but isn't going to die. You know, in fact, when the person dies, the avatar gets a career boost.
You know, you know, when Elvis Presley died, all the crocodiles in the entertainment industry saying, "Great career move." Joann Butler: Yeah. Stewart Copeland: So, in other words, your avatar is, that's the celebrity, but the actual person still has to put his pants on one leg at a time. Joann Butler: Yeah. But there is a difference between a musician and like, an actor.
I would say. Stewart Copeland: Yes, very different. Joann Butler: I mean music does help you mentally and physically. Stewart Copeland: Well, we have to have compassion for actors because they can't do anything but wait for the phone to ring.
They can't write a song. Well maybe they can write a song, but that's not their job or their reason for anything. They have to wait for the phone to ring and then be rejected most of the time because your nose is the wrong shape. Nothing you can do, they’re just looking for a different type.
We want a guy with curly hair, you know. And so it's quite an emotionally difficult job. Actors tend to be stranger than musicians. I don't know if that's because I am a musician and I speak their language.
But actors, you know, sitting next to an actor at a dinner party, they are hard work. Because nobody, nobody wrote their lines for the dinner party or something. But actors are actually even more visible because you see their face on the screen. The musicians, you hear them and you might see a picture on an album cover or something, but actors in your face.
That's that guy walking down the street. So they have to deal with it a lot more than musicians do. And yet they don't get the same respect because the guy who plays Batman in a movie is never going to be as cool as the guy who is Bruce Springsteen. Joann Butler: Right.
And it's just different. Like I don't love you because you're a celebrity. It's because of the, what you created. Stewart Copeland: Well, we just met and you're in love already?
Joann Butler: Yeah. Stewart Copeland: I am. Joann Butler: Me too. Stewart Copeland: Well, that's my default.
I love all people. Joann Butler: Oh, I love all good people. Stewart Copeland: I love bad people, too. Joann Butler: Really?
Stewart Copeland: Yep. You know, we are only human and can't help but judge. But when the gavel falls, remember love. Joann Butler: That's good.
Stewart Copeland: You know, when you're cut, and it's the remembering part is the point. Loving is not so hard. It's the remembering part. You know, you're cut up in traffic.
I love you. Joann Butler: I don't do that. I'm not gonna lie. I need to work on it.
But you know what I mean. Like with the musician, it's like I do love my dentist. I love my dentist. Stewart Copeland: Yes.
But you probably don't have a picture of him on your wall. Or maybe you do. Joann Butler: I might, I guess. But I don't know.
There's something different about music. Stewart Copeland: Well, it's his skill. Well, I guess that’d be true musicians. It's a skill.
Joann Butler: You must feel it. Like who did you, just the guys from Cream? Stewart Copeland: Who did I idolize? Jimi Hendrix, Mitch Mitchell.
Joann Butler: Yeah. Stewart Copeland: Even Buddy Rich even though he's jazz, you know, which brings me to my favorite brag of my entire career. Well there's the Grammys. F*** that.
You know? But you know, I roadied for Wishbone Ash. I was out there with Ash. You know, that's a brag.
But the other brag is that I gave Buddy Rich my autograph. How about that? Joann Butler: That’s awesome. Stewart Copeland: Which was, okay, describe the circumstance here.
It was at the Grammys and backstage at the Grammys is, way the best hang in show business. And there's Buddy Rich. My god. And he's like walking in my general direction.
I'm trying to get, put myself in the path of where he's going to end up. So I might like, he might brush past, I could feel, you know, the, you know, the thing, you know, and then I realized he's walking up to me. He's, in spite of my urgent obeisance, you know, you know, he's actually talking to me. And he has a piece of paper, “Sign this.” And I look and it's “For my daughter.” His daughter Cathy was poking out from behind, you know.
You know, he looked like he was chewing on a turd. But I gave Buddy Rich my autograph. Joann Butler: Awesome. I love it.
I love that. Stewart Copeland: You know, Neil Peart couldn't say that. John Bonham couldn't say that. Joann Butler: That's right.
Stewart Copeland: Not even Ringo Starr could say that. Joann Butler: Well, how do you know? He might have. Stewart Copeland: He might have been a fan.
I doubt it. Joann Butler: No, I doubt it, too. And so many people look up to you that way. Taylor Hawkins.
Stewart Copeland: Yes. Joann Butler: What was he like? Stewart Copeland: Goofy. Him and Dave both, they kind of reinvented fanboy and I'd go to his house or he'd come over to my place, he'd always be wearing a Police t-shirt, which is so uncool and yet so cool.
Joann Butler: So cool. What kind of drummer was he, would you say? Stewart Copeland: Rock and roll drummer. Played with a lot of panache.
At my home I have my studio, the Sacred Grove where I have, the entire room is mic’d up, line checked. Every instrument, you pick up an instrument and there's a mic on it which is going to a channel on my temp, you know I open up a template and every mic is live. Every square yard of the room is on the mic. And so my chuckle buddies come over, whether it's Snoop Dogg or Neil Peart or Taylor Hawkins or Ben Harper or whoever, Stanley Clark, you know, and they come over and we jam.
And I got cameras around the room, too, and I just turn them all on, and we jam. And Taylor was a frequent visitor. One night I had Taylor and Danny Carey or, you know, Taylor and Neil Peart, you know, which means I get to play guitar. When I got drummers like that in the house.
And so he would, the all, these are all on YouTube. Joann Butler: Yes. It's a great channel. Stewart Copeland: No agenda, no record label, no, it's just there to dial them up.
And anything, you know, Snoop Dogg at the Sacred Grove or the Sacred Grove. Joann Butler: Saw a bit of it. It's so cool. I love it.
I love that. All right, let's go back to The Police because we just skimmed over it. Five albums, 75 million records. Stewart Copeland: By the way, 75 million records.
That's an imaginary number. Joann Butler: Really? Stewart Copeland: Nobody knows how many records they sold, particularly with streams and everything like that. And everybody, you know, you know, I hear Metallica sold 85 million records.
Well, f*** that. We sold 90 million records. You know, it's just… Joann Butler: There's probably more than that.
Stewart Copeland: Surely, you know, I first heard 75 million records. Oh, about 10 years ago or something, you know. So those numbers can be taken with a grain of salt. Joann Butler: When did you first know you had chemistry?
Stewart Copeland: Well, with Sting right away and with Andy right away. After talking to him on the phone up in Newcastle and that's a long story how, how I got his number, because I saw him playing up there and I had to get his number. And one day down in London, phone rings and it's “Hi,” it's that voice that we all know now, “I'm downstairs.” He was calling from a phone booth downstairs. “Come on up.” And at that time I had kind of a fancy apartment in a band room where I played, you know.
I was in a band called Curved Air that would, had been quite successful and of course the apartment itself was a squat in Mayfair London and Mayfair London is like one of the purple ones of the English Monopoly board. That's another long story. Come to the show and I'll tell you all about it. And plugged him into an amp and the minute we lit up it just took off.
And we just felt “This is working.” Whatever material we played, even like dumb songs that I had, we just felt it right away. Similarly, The Police when it first, we first formed, we were immediately spotted as fake punks, as carpetbaggers, interlopers. And so The Police was kind of dead in the water, but Sting and I would get jobs as session players playing on other people's records. And one of these sessions, the guitarist was Andy Summers.
And the minute Andy Summers walks into the room, whoever's record it was, they were staring off into space while the three of us just lit it up. Joann Butler: Wow, that's so cool. And you said you saw Sting from, you know, far. What did you hear in his voice that attracted you?
Stewart Copeland: Rhythm and melody, but that's not what attracted me. For one thing, he had his own amp, great big old amp, qualified. But he was a bass player who could sing, which is specifically what I was looking for. But then again, there was an unmistakable glow coming down from the heavens, a celestial light coming down upon his magnificent brow.
Charisma out to here. Joann Butler: What's your favorite recording? Police recording? Stewart Copeland: “Reggatta de Blanc.” That was the most fun to record.
Not sure if it had the most hits on it, but it was, we were just beginning to, it felt like every gig that was a step up, when we moved from a small club to a big club. “That's it. We've conquered the world.” And so, it was incremental over eight years, but every step felt like world conquest. They say that it takes a lifetime to write your first album, but you got six months to write your second album.
And this was our second album. And we were short of material, but full of mojo because we were just beginning to get somewhere. So we went into the studio with just a great creative attitude. We were still codependent and collaborative and so that was the most fun record to record.
Joann Butler: Cool. What about a couple of your favorite songs? Stewart Copeland: Ah, “Message in a Bottle,” “Can't Stand Losing You,” “Bring On The Night.” I got lots of favorites. Joann Butler: You know what mine is?
Stewart Copeland: What's your favorite? Joann Butler: “The Other Way of Stopping.” Stewart Copeland: Aw shucks. Joann Butler: I swear. And “It's Alright for You” also.
Stewart Copeland: I played that. I played the guitar, bass, and drums on that. The only thing that isn't me is the vocals and the lead, and the guitar solo. And it's, I think it's because they were too lazy and I had my demo which sat, you know, everything was great.
So I laid down the drums and I played, you know, the guitar, and if you listen closely, the band, it's Klark Kent. Joann Butler: Yes I listened to it last night again. Stewart Copeland: You know the guitar solo is a for real guitarist playing the guitar solo. Joann Butler: Klark Kent is, sounds just like The Police.
The whole thing. Yeah. Stewart Copeland: Well not really. In fact very different.
Totally different. Utterly different. Except that in this one track, it's like, Klark Kent with Andy Summers on guitar, playing the solo and Sting singing. Big upgrade.
Joann Butler: I also like “Murder by Numbers.” Stewart Copeland: That's another obscure one. I do that with the orchestra. And it burns down the house even though, you know, we play “Every Breath You Take” and the big hits of course. And that's an obscure one.
It wasn't even on an album. It was like a b side. But that tune, obscure as it, you know, usually a known song is gonna have much more impact than a new song. And that's almost like a new song because it's so obscure.
And yet that song does burn down the house. I don't know why that stands out so much, but the orchestra, it's a great orchestral arrangement, a song that is really good for orchestral arrangement. So that goes down really well. Joann Butler: What about to play live?
Do you have a favorite to play live or did you? Stewart Copeland: Not particularly. “Roxanne.” And what I liked about “Roxanne” was in the middle we would go off in an improvisation which is my favorite part of the set, where we would go off, that's why I enjoy playing with Oysterhead and jam band, because it's, you're just making it up, and it's the one part, and it's not about the song, and yet Sting would get on the microphone and just go off improvisationally, melodically and that just lit me up every night. That was my favorite moment of the set, was when we would go off into a jam.
Joann Butler: So cool. When you're with your friends doing your YouTube, do you have, do you play a lot of Police songs? Do they want to play them? Stewart Copeland: Are you kidding?
Joann Butler: Yes. Stewart Copeland: We don't play any songs. Joann Butler: No? Stewart Copeland: Of any kind.
No, we're jamming. Joann Butler: Just jam, just jam. Stewart Copeland: Yeah. Joann Butler: Cool.
Stewart Copeland: Song? Entering the Sacred Grove? Banished. Joann Butler: You think there'll be any other, you said you're done professionally, but do you think there'll be any other songs coming out from you?
Stewart Copeland: I'm working on an opera. Joann Butler: Wow. Stewart Copeland: Which is like a two hour song. Joann Butler: My God.
Awesome. Stewart Copeland: That's what I do now. Joann Butler: Yeah. Stewart Copeland: I've written seven operas.
I've actually had a pretty good career. You know, opera is a very, it's kind of a microcosm, but within that microcosm, I've been commissioned by the Royal Opera in London, Covent Garden, by the Deutsche Nationaltheater. I had a hit opera in Italy, which for a skinny California composer is the big, because Italy is like the Nashville of opera. Every man, woman, and child knows about opera in Italy.
And so to get a commission from an Italian opera company is the deal. Joann Butler: So cool. Awesome. Police, was it always difficult, and you, did you have some good times?
Stewart Copeland: Yes, we had mostly good times except for that pervading anxiety that affected all three of us. Our interactions are, were great. We got along really well. Eventually getting in the studio trying to make records together, the music got in the way of our friendship.
But our friendship still survives to this day and we were really closely bonded after all we went through together. As long as we don't play music, we get along fine. Joann Butler: But why is that? What exactly happens?
Stewart Copeland: Because we're on different missions. What I want to do musically, my purpose of being a musician, all of my instincts are absolutely contrary and conflict with Stingo's musical intentions. He's writing songs which are, involve words and they involve a subject and we're talking about something. He's writing songs with great sociopolitical import or emotional insight.
That's what he does. He writes songs that are about something and melodically he's singing, and he's got this racket going on over him. I don't care about his song. You know, what he's singing.
I care about his melody, everything about him musically. What he's singing about? I don't know what he's singing about. I only ever see the back of his head, you know?
I don't care. But, so we're on different missions. We make music for different reasons, by different means, and we listen to different music. So we get a, we're actually totally different people as well.
You know he runs quiet and deep. I'm noisy and shallow, so sue me. But we still really have a bond until we start trying to play music together and so that's why we don't. Joann Butler: That's cool.
Interesting. Interesting. Well, I'm glad you're still kind of close. When you look back on everything, anything you wish you did differently?
Stewart Copeland: Well, I used to have a fantasy that I wake up in boarding school in England, age 16, knowing everything that I know now, including the chords to “Every Breath You Take,” "Dancing in the Streets," “Hey Jude,” and everything. And I, at 16 and a half, I'm having hits all over the world. And this fantasy takes me back to pretty much where I am here today talking to you. Joann Butler: There was a movie about that.
The Beatles movie where the kid does exactly that. I forget what it was called. Stewart Copeland: Yeah. And nobody's heard of his songs and…
Joann Butler: Yeah. Oh, that's so funny. What would your current self tell your younger? Stewart Copeland: The advice I would give might make the younger Stewart happy, but would have ruined his career, which is, dude, it's going to be fine.
Relax. Now, if I had relaxed, I wouldn't have gotten where I got. No, I'm not talk, and by the way, I'm not talking about playing. I'm talking about in life.
You know, I was on the phone, I couldn't go to bed at night unless I had accomplished something. I needed, you know, I can't let five minutes go by without advancing my cause in some way. And that urgency is why I got to where I got to. But it did make me anxious at the time.
And I would say, "Dude, you're going to be fine." Which would be bad advice. Joann Butler: When did you realize, you know, “Oh I should stop doing that?” Stewart Copeland: I don't know. Seven kids will calm you down. Joann Butler: 7 kids.
Right. 7 kids yes. Stewart Copeland: Perfect woman. 74 years of life will alleviate some of the angst.
And even now as this physical carcass is rotting away, I'm actually happier. Every passing decade, I find myself more cheerful than the previous decade. Joann Butler: That's awesome. That's so great.
I love it. Stewart Copeland: I don't know why. There's no good reason for, well, I guess that you know, I got my kids around me. Life is pretty good.
And I guess you get to the point where you can appreciate it. Joann Butler: Yeah. Stewart Copeland: But I have friends who are also musicians and others, crew members and stuff who haven't been so financially, materially successful who are in their 70s who also are experiencing this strange thing of, as you get older, as your body withers away, your heart grows more peaceful. Joann Butler: So unfair.
Why does it take so long to like, get wiser, to be chill. It’s like… Stewart Copeland: I don't know. You got, I guess when you, you got to get slapped around by the world a little bit so then you can appreciate when you're not getting slapped around.
Joann Butler: I guess. What are the biggest misconceptions about The Police? Stewart Copeland: Well, the worst one is that we used to fight physically all the time and that Sting broke my rib. I want to dispel this myth completely, and once and for all.
I broke his rib. Okay, can we move on now? And by the way, we were both laughing hysterically at the time. We never ever…
Joann Butler: Oh, this really happened? Stewart Copeland: Yeah. We never fought in anger. We would only, you know, we would, we, if we were angry, we had much more damaging psychological weapons, you know, but the shiv, we knew exactly where to get that thing right in between the ribs there, you know, but never with physical violence.
But the one time was, we were playing Shea Stadium that day, and the English press were all there taking pictures. It was like the Beatles conquering America again and we were cheerful, happy and Sting grabs my New York Times and I grab it back. We get into a play, we’re like the Monkees, you know, a play tussle and at one point I, you know, had to apply a knee to the rib cage to get my newspaper back and there's, “ow ow ow” you know, there was a, turns out there was a hairline fracture, but we played the show last night. Probably the best show we ever played.
I think we all agree that was the night, you know, the apotheosis where we just nailed it on that night. Even though the press, the paparazzi were all there documenting this, still the myth went out that we fought all the time and one time Sting broke Stewart’s rib. God damn it. I broke his rib.
Joann Butler: Right. Get it right. Oh, funny. Who are some of your favorite drummers of today?
Stewart Copeland: Eloy Casagrande, and also Joey Jordison, who were both two drummers in Slipknot. Nowadays the chops are all in death metal. And I love heavy metal, crunch metal because for some reason as I'm driving in my car the sound of extremely angry young men cheers me up. I don't know why it is, but heavy metal just makes my day.
Joann Butler: Oh, I love it. Stewart Copeland: Yeah. Joann Butler: Yeah. I love you even more now.
Stewart Copeland: Oh, by, and I got another fan, Anika, who just joined Rush. Good on you, girl. You know, I was so, you know, the Jewish people have an expression, you know, verklempt. I'm probably mispronouncing it, but when I saw the Instagram clips of her playing “Tom Sawyer,” the moment and Neil's fans are particularly rigid in their expectations, you know, I once asked Neil, "How do you get the air drum going?
I want to, I want that." And he said, "Well, you got to play the drum fills the same every night.” Okay, that's me out, you know. Anyhow, so she's there with that audience and that responsibility and she gets to “Tom Sawyer” and nails it. And I'm thinking, "Oh, I'm all verklempt." You know, but then the audience response of just the joy, you know the, that really got me. The fact that those Neil Peart fans, Rush fans, gave her that encouragement.
Oh, I'm a sucker for that stuff. Joann Butler: Oh, it's so great. What other heavy metal bands do you like? Stewart Copeland: Idles.
Heavy metal. I don't know if they count. They're not heavy metal. They're not thrash metal, you know.
A couple Metallica tunes I like. Joann Butler: Or any bands. Stewart Copeland: Any bands today? Joann Butler: Yeah.
Stewart Copeland: Well, the big band on everyone's lips is Angine de Poitrine. And here I am spreading it even further. That is the most sudden worldwide conquest of any artist I've ever seen. And you know what?
You don't know the name, but you know the guys on Instagram with the polka dots and the triangular head? Joann Butler: Oh yeah. Yeah. Stewart Copeland: Exactly.
You know, and their music is totally wrong. You can't play pop music in 17-9 rhythm. And yet they do. And you know, it's beautiful.
It's really catchy and pretty and cool even though it's just way beyond sophisticated. Way too sophisticated for a sane world. And yet they've just exploded because it's really catchy and really fun and cool in spite of being so clever. Joann Butler: What about technology?
Like what do you think of music today and how it's changed because of the… Stewart Copeland: Well, good and bad news. Good news is that through technology everybody can make music which is the way it should be. For the listeners, that increases, widens the talent pool and for the people doing it, music, you know homo sapiens evolved music to play and enjoy music before we figured out agriculture.
You know, the first musical instruments are 30,000 years old. The first agricultural instruments are like only 10,000 years old. 10,000 years ago, our ancestors figured, “Hey, look, if we keep all these cows right here, and we don't have to chase them over the Serengeti all the time, and if we take these barley seeds and water them, we got food supply.” And so the human population exploded when we discovered agriculture. We discovered music 20,000 years before that.
We were making music. And archaeologists reckon that the reason that homo sapiens supplanted Neanderthal is because we have musical instruments in our, the strata of the caves where we lived and the archaeologists dig up. The Neanderthals did not. And so music was evolved to join humans together.
And humans with their music and their ritual communal gatherings joined by music, singing and dancing together, it was a cohesive force that held larger groups together so that us 20 homo sapiens could kick those five Neanderthal out of the fruit tree, and that music was this bonding force. Joann Butler: What does music do for people? Stewart Copeland: Sex for one thing. Music is the language of love.
You know, listen to the radio. What's it all about? It's about procreation. In fact, I would say that music is unique of all the art forms because it will physically usurp motor control of your body.
It will cause you to twitch weirdly. And what form of twitching does it induce or inspire? Overt sexual display, thrusting pudenda. Which you don't get from Shakespeare or Rembrandt.
Only music will actually cause you to move weirdly. So that tells you that it's way deep in our DNA. We don't do it just for fun. It's actually part of our humanity.
Joann Butler: That's for sure. How would you describe your personality? But you already told me that. I’ll ask you again.
Stewart Copeland: Deeply emotional with a poignant sensitivity to others. Joann Butler: I'll buy that. Secret to happiness in life? Stewart Copeland: Relax.
Joann Butler: Something no one knows about you? Stewart Copeland: I think everybody knows everything there is to know. My life is an open book. Joann Butler: And now they know it was you that damaged Sting's rib.
Okay. What's your favorite way to relax? Stewart Copeland: Favorite way to relax? Making music.
You know, officially I'm retired. Music for me is a hobby now. And so that's what I like to do is get on my guitar or my computer and concoct music. In fact, it's a problem trying to go on holiday when I haven't got my toys.
I'm sitting on a beach somewhere in Hawaii or the Pacific or Mexico or wherever and I'm sitting on a deck chair thinking “When's this flight gonna end?” Joann Butler: Do you bring sticks with you, like wherever you go? Stewart Copeland: No. Joann Butler: No. Okay.
Nothing like that. Favorite cocktail? Stewart Copeland: Favorite cocktail? Shot of tequila.
Six o'clock. Turn the page and that's it. That's my drinking for the night. I'm a total disgrace to my profession.
I'm a milksop. In fact, one shot of tequila, that's my party. Because I just discovered that that second or third shot doesn't work. Joann Butler: Yeah.
Stewart Copeland: And even that I, you know, that's like, you know, few days a week you know Friday, Saturday, Sunday. Joann Butler: Favorite comfort food? Stewart Copeland: Comfort food. Comfort food.
Curry. Joann Butler: Curry? Stewart Copeland: Yeah. Well, I grew up in England mostly.
And when I was, during the starving years, curry, an Indian curry, was the biggest meal you could get for one quid. And the most tasty, the most, had the most bulk and I, to this day I'm still totally a sucker for Indian cuisine. Joann Butler: That's cool. Favorite place to travel?
Stewart Copeland: Italy. Joann Butler: How come? Stewart Copeland: Because of Italians. Joann Butler: Yeah.
Stewart Copeland: The Italians are just the best. Joann Butler: They are. Stewart Copeland: They are. And they're so, it's a little, you have to adjust your, you know, I'm sort of teutonic, Northern European stock which means that the casual Italian time.
You have to relax a little. But it's worth it. Joann Butler: They know how to do it, that’s for sure. Stewart Copeland: The cappuccino, the espresso, the pasta, the olive oil.
But mainly the people. I just, I just love Italian people. I love being there. Joann Butler: I love it.
How do you stay fit? Stewart Copeland: How do I stay fit? Involuntarily. Banging stuff.
I don't, I'm allergic to going to the gym. Wouldn't be caught dead in the gym, but I bang stuff and that keeps me fit, I guess. Joann Butler: And you, Fiona, you've been together for 33 years. Is that right?
Stewart Copeland: No, half a century. I first met her when she was 16. Joann Butler: Wow. Stewart Copeland: In 1976.
Joann Butler: Wow. Stewart Copeland: So yeah. Joann Butler: And lots of kids. What are your tips for a successful marriage?
Stewart Copeland: Humor. But the big one that I tell all youngsters is let every dinner be your first date. Joann Butler: That's a good one. Stewart Copeland: You got, the minute you start relaxing, then it's, you know, you're going to, you're going to lose it.
And yeah, you can relax because this is your lifelong partner with whom you're supposed to be able to relax. But at least one time a day or call it dinner, you got to impress, you got to light each other up, you got to, you got to work at, you know, don't take it for granted. Joann Butler: Yeah. Stewart Copeland: You know it does after, okay after half a century, I don't need to work at it so hard because we're so in the pocket but still we maintain a level of humor and repartee and don't slob out with each other.
Joann Butler: That's good. That's a good one. Anything you binge watch? Stewart Copeland: Oh, yes.
Survivor. We've been watching Survivor for 20 years. I met Jeff Probst, the host, at a Foo Fighters party of all things. But we watch two seasons a year, every year.
And we watched it with the kids as they grew up. They've all grown up and out of the house now, but Fiona and I still watch it two seasons a year. We don't watch it when it's broadcast, we save them up so that we can binge watch every night. And for one thing, it's you know, holiday porn, location porn, you know, those incredible locations that they shoot it at.
To get to the end and win really takes a complex mix of social talent, you know, it's a social game, but also a physical game. So there are people who've won who are like elderly, you know, or middle-aged, totally unathletic women win Survivor, not through winning the challenges or anything, but the social game. Joann Butler: Yeah, that’s cool. I haven't seen that, believe it or not.
I gotta check it out. Favorite movie of all time? Stewart Copeland: Dr. Strangelove.
Joann Butler: What's the first movie you ever saw? Stewart Copeland: I can't remember. Joann Butler: Okay. Stewart Copeland: Probably Spartacus.
Well, my brother gave judo lessons in high school. Joann Butler: Oh, wow. Stewart Copeland: And he would use his two younger brothers as dummies. And so Ian and I would be the dummies.
And as a reward, he didn't cut us in on his profits. But he would take us to the movies. Joann Butler: Was your mom okay with that, that you guys were all like, in the music business and… Stewart Copeland: Yeah.
Particularly, my father was, loved it. Joann Butler: That's so cool. I feel like it's, you have to have like, supportive parents, like the, you know. Stewart Copeland: Yeah.
Well, my father was actually kind of a pop psychology fan and he had books around the house. This is, we're talking 50s now. 50s psycho stuff. And things like how to raise, how to raise your child's IQ and all this kind of stuff.
And so he was actually pretty good at getting exactly the right, which I've tried to emulate with my kids, exactly the right mix of encouragement and discouragement of, “Wow you've really got something there but you got to work on this here.” Because unconditional support, your mom loves everything, it turns to dirt. It goes negative. “Mom, shut up. I'm not that good.” You know, but so my father was able to, and every parent should seek to attain a balance of encouragement and discouragement, or rather encouragement and challenge.
Joann Butler: Right. Right. Stewart Copeland: You know that, that's really good, but I think you ought to work on this here. Joann Butler: Right.
Stewart Copeland: And by the way, a small compliment from such a parent goes a lot further than the gushing mom who just loves everything. Joann Butler: If you didn't play music what would you be? Stewart Copeland: Photographer, journalist. Joann Butler: And you did that.
Stewart Copeland: In fact, I did start, I never did photography. I did, I shot Super 8 movies for fun. Probably because I like writing, and I did start a magazine when I was in college. But the music kept dragging me back.
Joann Butler: Thank God. Birthday plans. You'll be 74 in two days. Stewart Copeland: Yeah, I'll be 74.
God knows what town I'll be playing, but it's not a big deal. Joann Butler: I think Jersey. Stewart Copeland: Okay. Happy birthday, Jersey.
Joann Butler: Happy birthday to you. 74. Stewart Copeland: Yep. Joann Butler: We have birthday cupcakes for you in the other room.
Stewart Copeland: Oh, shucks. Have you got a story? Joann Butler: Me? Stewart Copeland: Yeah.
Joann Butler: This is my story. This is it. I can die now. Stewart Copeland: Well cool, let's go hit those cupcakes.
Excellent.
