Joann Butler: Is it true that Eddie Van Halen asked you to take over for David Lee Roth when he left the band? Patty Smyth: He said, "I got to know. You got to let me know now." And I just was like, "No, I can't do it." Those decisions I made without really thinking it through. But I was like, "I'm really pregnant.
I don't want to move to LA." Rock and roll was sexist, let's face it. Hate to say it, even though I love it. It was not that women-friendly. Joann Butler: You mentioned your mom.
A fascinating life. Patty Smyth: My mom ran away to the circus when she was 16. She was a trapeze artist. She hung by her teeth.
A lot of people don't know this, but when I was 15, I opened for Andy Kaufman. Nobody knew who he was. That was the first time I saw him, and I could barely play the guitar. Joann Butler: You're married to John McEnroe.
I was like scared of him in a good sort of way. Patty Smyth: He can be scary. I have a way worse temper than him, and he's like the one that's like calming me down. Joann Butler: What about “Goodbye to You?” Patty Smyth: I finished the song, but I didn't know that.
His name is on that song, not my name. I have to set the record straight once in a while. Hi, you're watching Joann Butler In Studio With... me, Patty Smyth. Joann Butler: Patty Smyth in the house.
Yay! I'm so happy to have you here. Thanks for joining us on LifeMinute. So cool.
Patty Smyth: Thanks for having me. Happy to be here. I made it eventually. Joann Butler: Yay.
So, what do you got going on? You got some stuff going on, some shows happening, back on the road. Patty Smyth: Yeah, I'm doing a few shows. I'm going, actually in a couple of weeks or 10 days, out to Sacramento.
I'm going to open for Pat Benatar. That'll be fun. So, I'm going out there for a week and then I come back and then I've got the Carlyle in New York. That I'm really excited about.
I mean, it'll be fun to play with Pat. But the Carlyle is going to be five nights, October 20th to 24th. I'm going to have some friends come. Joann Butler: Oh, really?
Patty Smyth: Maybe I'll have my husband come and sing a couple of his, you know, standards. Joann Butler: Cool. Patty Smyth: No “American Songbook” though at this Carlyle show. I mean, everyone keeps asking me that, if I'm going to start singing the American Songbook, and I'm like, not yet.
Joann Butler: Why are they asking you that? Patty Smyth: I started out singing that, when I first took vocal lessons, you know. So, I mean, they're beautiful songs. They're good to learn by, but I think because it's the Carlyle, and I'm older now.
Joann Butler: What are you gonna sing? What are fans gonna get? Patty Smyth: I think they're gonna get what they want. You know, I like to give the fans what they want.
But I think the idea that I kind of, because like, I’m still, it’s still, I'm still fleshing it out, but because I'm a songwriter also, and I'm gonna have a couple of friends who are songwriters come and, you know, just sort of talk about the process and like there's a whole batch of songs that I wrote about so many people I know in my life and they're literally like, "Don't write a song about me." Because, you know, they're not totally positive, all of them. Some of them are, you know, maybe sad or funny. Well, that's not true. Some of them, I've written a couple songs for John and my sister and stuff.
And I'm also incorporating in the songs that I grew up on, the songs that really sort of like, turn the light on. I was talking to somebody, a friend of mine who's a singer today. I'm like, “You know, those songs that turn the light on, that's what I want to do.” Or the ones that you just couldn't stop singing and playing over and over. So, I'm bringing some of those out.
Some Neil Young, some maybe, I actually even was thinking about doing some crazy old folk song because my mom ran folk clubs in the Village when I was growing up. So that was really the beginning, you know, Joan Baez and Bob Dylan and all that. So, I'm just going to play around with it and just have fun. I mean, it's like having people come to your living room.
That's how intimate it is, which is fun. Joann Butler: It sure is. Patty Smyth: But I'm going to have a full band, though. Joann Butler: Are you?
Okay. Are you going to tell us who the surprise guests are going to be, or are you going to surprise people? Patty Smyth: Yeah, I think I'll leave it a surprise. Joann Butler: The Carlyle is really special.
Patty Smyth: Yeah, it is. I'm happy. I did a Christmas show with Bill Murray there last year and that, I did four out of the five nights because the opening night I had a very special birthday party that I didn't want to miss. But it was really fun doing that.
Crazy, but fun because I had to learn all these songs and I finally learned them on the last night. Joann Butler: Oh wow. Patty Smyth: So yeah, which is okay. Joann Butler: Really winging it.
Patty Smyth: I was winging it, definitely. Yeah, not, I don't love winging it, but I was winging it. Yeah. Joann Butler: So take us back.
You mentioned your mom. A fascinating life. I never knew that until I... Patty Smyth: That's not even the most fascinating thing about my mom.
It's wild. My mom ran away to the circus when she was 16 with her two best friends who were twins. They grew up in Gerritsen Beach, Long Island. There was a local little dance studio there and I think they were doing acrobatics in their yard and they heard that Cole Bros.
Circus was doing auditions here in Manhattan like on 8th Avenue and 34th Street or something, and so they took the train in and they auditioned and they got in, which is crazy. I mean, these three young girls from Brooklyn, I think the twins were a year younger than her or a year older. And so they went, my grandfather didn't know, but my grandmother knew and, you know, signed the paper that my mom needed. And she was on a circus train for two years.
Joann Butler: What was she doing? Patty Smyth: She was a trapeze artist. She hung by her teeth. She did the, it's called “Jaws of Steel,” which is crazy.
She did the web, which was a really, really difficult thing to do. And she rode the elephants, too. I know, it's crazy. I don't think I found that out until I was like 10 years old, like she made an offhand remark about the circus.
I'm like, "What?” That was my mom. And then she managed Link Wray when I was in middle school. Him and his band lived in our four-room apartment in Brooklyn. We were like in a tenement building, four-story walk-up, and his band was in our living, sleeping in our living room, all four of them.
Joann Butler: Wow. Patty Smyth: Which was, that was amazing. I think that was one of those moments for me in my life when I happened to be in my room singing. I was always singing when I was a kid.
It was annoying how much I sang, I think. But you know that whole Gladwell thing with the 10,000 hours. I think that's very true. It's very right on.
But anyway, he heard me. Link heard me singing in the other room and he called me in and he said, "What were you singing?" And I sang it back to him and that was when I knew that he liked it. Do you know what I mean? Like he gave me his seal of approval, kind of.
I don't remember exactly what he said. Joann Butler: How old were you? Patty Smyth: 12 or 13. Probably 13.
Yeah, I know, so that was great and he was lovely. My mom really tried to help them. It was very hard at that time, you know. It was like whatever it was, 1970 or '71 or something.
So… Joann Butler: And she managed nightclubs? Patty Smyth: Before that. Yeah.
I guess before she managed Link Wray, she was in the Village. She somehow started running clubs and then opened a few of her own, but she ran The Gaslight, The Four Winds. Yeah, it was fun. I mean, I literally was on the stage dancing with bands like the Buffalo Springfield played there when I was a little girl.
I would just, yeah, I think it was in my blood. Joann Butler: Yeah, I think. You had no choice, it sounds like. Patty Smyth: No.
No. Joann Butler: And obviously your mom was supportive. Patty Smyth: She was very supportive. And I probably went on stage the first time at her club.
And then I did,I don't know, a lot of people don't know this, but when I was 15, there was a club in Brooklyn. We were still living in Brooklyn, it was before I moved back to the city. And there was a club called Pips. It was a comedy club.
Every comedian that you know played Pips back in the day, like from Seinfeld to everybody. And I opened for Andy Kaufman. I was 15. Nobody knew who he was.
That was the first time I saw him and that was pretty fun. I could barely play the guitar. But I knew George, the owner, so he let me open for him. Joann Butler: What did you sing?
Do you remember? Patty Smyth: I probably sang "Sad Lisa", which was, "Fire and Rain", probably, and "Sad Lisa", you know, Cat Stevens, and I don't even know. I only did a few songs and I could barely, I mean I could sing, but I really couldn't play. I've only started taking guitar lessons the last two years now.
So I can play now, but yeah. Joann Butler: Really? Oh wow. So then what?
Like then what happened? Patty Smyth: Oh god, so much happened. I would say that that was the beginning. Like, you know, I was still a kid, so I did that.
And then we moved to, then I got hit by a car, which precipitated me... Joann Butler: Oh my gosh! Patty Smyth: Yeah, I was okay. I just broke my leg.
But that precipitated us moving to the city, back to Manhattan, because we were in a four-story walk-up. And so my mom was running The Gaslight then, the one that was on MacDougal Street. And I put a little band together. I met these guys who, you know, we were all teenagers.
So that was the beginning and just starting the playing. And then, you know, I went, but I was still in high school, so I went to school for a minute. I left home pretty early. I left home at 16, 16 and a half.
So I was just sort of working and woodshedding music. That's what I, and going to high school. I had a job, was in high school, and then, you know, something had to give. So you can guess what gave.
But anyway, I just, I would just go over to people in clubs and I'd be like, "Can I sing with you?" I mean, I would do that. I can't believe I did that now. But I would just, someone would be singing on a, in a club, I'd be, "Can I sing with you?" And every once in a while they would say yes. And they'd be like, "Oh my god," you know, because it wasn't like I couldn't sing.
I could sing. I mean, but a lot of the time they were like, "No, I don't think so." So that's what, I was just bouncing around. And then I wound up going up to Catch a Rising Star, and I had a friend who took me to the comedy club. And it turns out there was a talent night on Monday nights, I guess, or open mic auditions.
And so I went up and I did that, which is funny. I have photos. I just found some photographs of that. I was wearing, because I'm friends with Bill Maher, who also started out, and we met way back in the day, and I had on a dungaree jumpsuit, which he immediately made fun of when I sent him the picture.
Yeah. And like everybody was coming up through Catch. So I stayed, and it was like three comics and a singer, and I loved it because it was so much fun and all we did was laugh and hang out. So that was great.
But Pat Benatar was right before me, like a year or two before me, and she was managed by Rick Newman, which is funny. So she would be there once in a while. It's just, it’s a strange way to get into the music business, but I'm so happy that I did. Joann Butler: Yeah, it is.
Patty Smyth: Yeah, because it was really funny. Yeah, because I lived in the East Village, but I really wasn't into the punk scene because I liked really good singers and really great songs and, you know, melodies and stuff like that. I wasn't really, I was more into soul and R&B and, than the early punk kind of a thing. I mean, there's obviously bands that wound up being great and having great songs and great players, but that wasn't really, like I kept getting Patti Smith's mail because she lived like down the block or something.
So, I mean, maybe that should have been the tip-off that I might have dropped Smyth, but I didn't. I tenaciously hung on to my father's name. Joann Butler: I love that. What did your father do?
Patty Smyth: He was a construction worker. He was like a sky walker. Him and the Mohegans did the high, all the high-rises and stuff like that. Joann Butler: My gosh.
So a New Yorker always. Patty Smyth: Oh, yeah. Joann Butler: Wow. Wow.
Patty Smyth: Yeah, I think he was born in Hell's Kitchen and then wound up in Gerritsen Beach. Yeah. Joann Butler: So what singers did you like? Like who were your influences?
Patty Smyth: That's like a tough one. I think if we went back and looked at how many, I would have a different answer every single time, I think. But I'm going to say like, I guess, you know, the first record that I requested, you know, I have to say I'm so lucky that I grew up when I did because Top 40 radio had everything from like Tony Bennett to the Stones to Motown to great country music, you know, and you know from "Wichita Lineman," I mean, it just was all over the map and it was really great to have so many different influences because you don't have that anymore. It’s like so, everything is so in their own little, you know, lane.
So that was great. So, I mean the first album I requested from my mother was the Beatles, was the Beatles record. So that was when, the beginning where I was like, "I want my records, not your records anymore," because she had like Barbra Streisand and she had some good records, but yeah, I wanted my own records. So I would say the Beatles have to be up there.
You know, I loved Janis Joplin. I loved Joan Baez in the beginning. You know, Led Zeppelin, but I loved Al Green. I loved Bowie.
You know, there's so many. But I found Bowie later. I was, because that time in the '70s was such a good soul time. And that's really, it was like rock and soul, that's kind of where I went.
And a little country. I always loved country because it's great stories and they're great singers. Joann Butler: Yeah. Patty Smyth: I always loved Dolly Parton.
Joann Butler: Yeah. Patty Smyth: You know, and… Joann Butler: Big loss. Patty Smyth: And Glen, yeah and Glen Campbell.
I mean, they were just, he was a great guitar player, was a good singer. So, there's so many. Gladys Knight, I loved Aretha Franklin. But, you know, when I listen to Aretha Franklin, I'm like, “I'm never going to be able to sing that good.” But I just was reaching.
And I think that's what people need who are becoming singers or musicians, whoever it is. You got to reach, you know, and you have to. And I feel like there's not that many great singers around honestly for kids to kind of reach to that level, you know, that level of singing’s sort of passed away or passed on, kind of. There's a few exceptions, but not as many.
I mean, I'm so grateful for Marvin Gaye and Al Green and, you know, Robert Plant, like, you know, so many. Joann Butler: Are there any of today that you particularly like? Patty Smyth: There are some good singers now. I mean there’s, you know, Pink is a good singer.
She can really sing. I mean, she's not a kid, but, you know, she's, I mean, I'm just going to go blank now about who do I like that I listen to. You know, my kids listen to so much rap music that I hear a lot, but I just feel like all the girls sing like this now, and they’re in these tiny voices. So, I can't even tell if they can sing or not.
It's like that s*** on the mic, you know, when they're doing this s***. That's what the singing sounds like to me now. So, but maybe that's okay, you know, because it speaks to people. I mean, it seems to be popular and people like it, and it doesn't matter so much if you can go balls to the walls, you know, like I mean, I guess it's all right.
It's song styling. Like when I was younger, I think I was a little bit more like, "You got to be able to sing." But I love, but when you can really interpret a song and you tell the story, then that's really what the point is, right? Joann Butler: Yes. And you could always hear every word that you said, which is nice.
And your voice is so different. It really is. Did you do anything to hone it, you know, over the years or? Patty Smyth: No, I've been really neglecting it, if anything else but, because I don't really sing that much.
But I've been lucky that I can still sing everything in the same key for some reason. I shouldn't even say that out loud because it'll probably jinx me. But for some reason, you know, and I, at 30, I started to get like chronic sinus infections. Living in New York, I don't know what happened, I developed bad allergies.
And that's when I went to a singing teacher. I went to this woman, Joan Lader, who, she teaches everyone on Broadway, and anyone who ever has to do a musical in a film, they go to her. And she really is amazing. And she gave me speech therapy, because back then, I mean, I don't have a high voice, but I was like, "Hi, how you doing?
Nice to see you," because I was beating the s*** out of my vocal cords, and my voice was getting lower and lower, and so my speaking voice was hurting my singing voice. So she taught me how to, you know, how to just get my, it was a weird thing of just like, "Mi mi mi" or something like that, and it got my voice back to where it should be, which was just a little bit lower than it was. And then she gives me all these crazy techniques, like I warm up with a straw in water now. And it turns out a lot of people are doing that now.
But because of her, I can still sing, like, and like sing in the same range, thank God. So I don't do any, I'm so bad it, about taking care of it. Joann Butler: You're good. You’re alright.
Whatever you're doing, keep doing it. Patty Smyth: Thanks. At least I quit smoking. Joann Butler: Oh, did you smoke?
Patty Smyth: Yeah, but not a lot. But 15 years ago, I stopped. But where did I want to smoke? In the studio.
You know, that was when I really wanted to smoke. I wasn't a heavy smoker, but I'm sure that it's good that I don't smoke. Joann Butler: Yes, for sure. Patty Smyth: Wait, I was out to dinner with my girls last night, my two youngest daughters, and they were like, "We're really sorry that we ripped up…" They still feel so guilty about flushing my cigarettes down the toilet.
But I think that might be because the toilet overflowed. But I was like, "Look, it's all right. I get it. You know, you were worried about me." They really scare kids.
So, they were like on me. Because of them, I quit. Joann Butler: That's great. A lot of people, it's usually the other way around, right?
Well, my mom, she's 96 now. She just stopped around 90, and I said she went downhill when she stopped smoking. That's our big thing. Patty Smyth: Who knows?
She could be right. God bless her, though. She's 96. My mom made it to 92.
Joann Butler: So she saw you become famous? Patty Smyth: Oh yeah. I only lost her like 10 months ago or something. Joann Butler: Oh, wow.
I'm so sorry. Patty Smyth: Thank you. Yeah, that was hard. That was hard.
Joann Butler: Recent. I didn’t realize. Patty Smyth: I can’t talk about it. Joann Butler: Yes.
All right. Zack Smith's Scandal. Let’s talk about Scandal. Patty Smyth: What do you want to know?
Well, I mean, the origin story is that in between singing at Catch a Rising Star and The Comic Strip, I was waitressing at a steakhouse. I was working at The Comic Strip for a while, but I stopped working there as a waitress. I don't know why I went to the steakhouse. It must have been better money.
Who the hell knows? I went up one day, it was my day off, and I went to pick up my girlfriend to, we were going to go out after her shift was done. You know, she'd be done by 10:30 there, 11:00 we were going to go out and go dancing or whatever. And the pay phone rang and I picked up the pay phone.
I just like answered it because I was sitting at the bar, and it was Zack Smith and he was like, "I'm looking for Patty Smyth." And I'm like, "I'm Patty Smyth." And he's like, "I've been trying to reach you." And, you know, he asked me for my phone number after he complained to me that he couldn't reach me. Oh, that was what it was, I go, "I'm listed, man. I mean, how hard is it to find me?" Because remember, it costs money to be unlisted back in the day, so I was listed. So, we had an argument the first time we spoke and probably the last time we spoke.
That was kind of our dynamic a little bit. But he, you know, he was pretty driven. He had demos already. He had "Line on You" and a couple of other songs in the studio that he had recorded with like Elton John's band.
Like he was like that guy, he came from advertising, big film music fan also. And so he hired all these great musicians, but he didn't really have a singer yet. He wanted me to come and audition or whatever. And I was having dinner with my mom that night, so I go, "Look, I'll come and meet you, but I'm bringing my mom because we have a…" Joann Butler: I would bring her, too.
Your mom. Patty Smyth: Yeah, I mean, why not? I wasn't going to cancel my dinner with her. And anyway, I'm going into his house.
He lived in a townhouse on the second floor up in the Upper East Side. Of course, I was in the East Village. And a chick was coming out. He timed it on purpose.
He was like a mind game guy. So, somebody was coming out as I was going in. I go, "I'm not auditioning for you, man. You know I can sing, so if you want me to do it, I'll do it, but I'm not singing in your living room right now." And that was it.
Then he wanted me in his band, just because I had some tude, I guess. And it was great, except I think it freaked him out that I was good at it and that I was a good front person, and then of course I started to get the attention. But that's just what happens when you're the lead vocalist, you get the attention, and I was the only girl in the band. And I think he just, because it was his baby, he just really couldn't let go of it.
And that hurt us. That hurt the band, it hurt the relationship, you know like the friendship. And because we were never involved, even though his name is Smith and my name is Smyth, people assume that, but he was married to a very nice girl, Debbie, who helped me with my clothes for the "Goodbye to You" video. He was a little bit too controlling and so it became untenable.
I just couldn't do it. Joann Butler: I didn’t even know that. Patty Smyth: Yeah. So, we just parted ways during The Warrior album.
Joann Butler: But those songs, the way you delivered them, no one else could deliver them. It was the way you delivered them. Patty Smyth: I don't know, I hope so. I can't believe the way I delivered "The Warrior" in a way.
But, you know, it was Mike Chapman and I wanted to sing good for him. And there was, I knew when I heard the song, like it'd be a fun song to sing. It's kind of goofy lyrics in the chorus a little bit, but the verse lyrics are great and you could just kind of sink your teeth into it. You know, I didn't really know how it was going to go, but I wanted to do well for Chapman.
Joann Butler: What do you mean you can't believe how you delivered them? Patty Smyth: Well, I mean that I sang it with such conviction is what I mean. You know, in a way it's like, yeah, “shooting at the wall.” You know, I mean, it was a little bit, but I did it. I mean, you had to kind of, you got to be committed.
Joann Butler: Goosies. What about "Goodbye to You"? Those two anthems. Patty Smyth: Oh, that's really an annoying one because, you know, I was so green, like I didn't know.
And that may be the first song that I co-wrote. And you know I didn't know that, I didn’t even know that, that that would be considered writing part of the song because we were in the studio, we had gone into, someone from CBS, Paul Atkinson, who was an A&R guy, I think, was getting us to do demos at CBS for CBS. This was CBS, Columbia, Sony, now Sony, right? So, we were in the studio doing demos and then we made a video.
We made a video before the "Goodbye to You" video. We did a funky "Line on You" video. We got signed because of that. So we sent it into the label, they were like, forget the demos, let's just get them in the studio.
But we didn't have a single. So we were putting out an EP. We were in the studio with Vini Poncia, and we didn't have enough songs. We were so new, you know, this band, we'd only been together like six months or something.
That's why we put out an EP, but we didn't have a single. So I went up to his house and we were going through tapes and stuff on the floor and I heard, and he had some of the lyrics on the floor, but it wasn't a finished song. And what's funny is on the lyrics there was someone else's name, another girl's name with him on the song that they had started, but it wasn't done. So I go, "Look, this one, let’s, what is this, like, let's work on this one." And so I think I wrote the bridge, I don't even know, but I mean I, you know, I finished the song, but I didn't know that.
So his name is on that song, not my name. But he wasn't going to tell me that, of course, you know, I mean a lot of people are like that. So that wound up being our hit single, right? And what's funny is so many people came over to me, like guys who I had dated, not so many, but a couple in the past were like assuming that I was singing that song about them, which is kind of funny.
But no, so I mean that's the story of that song, but it was so, I mean, you know, he wrote probably most of it, I probably wrote a quarter of it or a third of it, but it was a really good riff and the "Goodbye to You" part was really good. That's the story. You can edit most of that out, but... Joann Butler: Oh, are you kidding?
Patty Smyth: Oh, he called me one day because I said it in an interview before and he called me or he texted me or something. I go, "Dude, man, you show me, show me the finished product before you met me, just like, where is that song? Because it doesn't exist." Joann Butler: Right. Right.
Right. And this is Zack. No wonder why you're not talking to him. Patty Smyth: Oh, I'll talk to him once in a while.
There's not really any bad blood. Listen, it’s turned out just fine for me. It's all right, but I still feel like I have to set the record straight once in a while. Joann Butler: Yeah.
Patty Smyth: That's why you have to remember that it's music business. Joann Butler: Yes. So many people say that. Patty Smyth: Yeah, it is.
Joann Butler: But did your mom tell you that? Patty Smyth: No, I don't think my mom knew about songwriting. You know, she knew about running clubs and booking, but she didn't, no, she didn't know that. No.
I mean, she helped me as much as she could. Yeah. But it's a very different thing being a promoter and a club owner than, she wasn't really in the recording industry, you know. That's a whole other can of worms, or other things, especially back then.
You know what it was like to go on a promotional tour? We made the EP and me and Zack literally stayed in like, you know, the cockroaches were bringing our bags in, I mean, we were like down in Key West, all over the South with this great A&R guy, and every radio station we went into was like, "Well, we added a girl already this week, we can't, we're not going to add your record," because it would be like Benatar or Chrissie Hynde or Linda Ronstadt, whoever it was. And it, I could not believe that because I grew up with a single mom who was the boss, you know? I'm like, so I didn't really understand sexism or misogyny or whatever, but it's shocking to think that that's what it was like, because now it's so completely different.
There's so many women artists. But yeah, I mean rock and roll is also not really around as much anymore. But yeah, that was a big shock. Joann Butler: But you did break through.
Patty Smyth: Yeah, we broke through because of MTV though, because we made that video. I don't know if we would have, honestly, without that. I think we owe a lot to that girl jumping around, and our friend who was a fashion photographer who shot the video for us. Joann Butler: Wow.
Patty Smyth: Which was nice of him. Joann Butler: Is there a Scandal song that you feel never got its due? Patty Smyth: I think "Beat of a Heart". I think "Beat of a Heart" people really like, but when we put out The Warrior, the next record, that was the obvious record that they were playing, remember AOR back in the day when it was album oriented, they were playing "Beat of a Heart".
That was the next obvious song that I feel like they should have let run, and instead they released "Hands Tied". And I always felt like they, I love "Hands Tied", but I think they released it too soon. And I think that song would have done better and "Beat of a Heart" would have been, done better. But Mike Chapman wrote "Hands Tied" and I think like they were anxious to get, because he was, you know, he wrote pretty good songs, hit songs.
So I think that was the only one. I mean, "Beat of a Heart" people really like and know, but I think it would have, that would have been the way that I would have done it. That's all. Joann Butler: Okay.
Then what came next? Was it Don Henley? Patty Smyth: I think I was, I sang on Don Henley's record when I was still, I think when I… Joann Butler: Still with Scandal?
Patty Smyth: I sang on his record before I did The Warrior, actually. He was calling me because it was before I had Ruby, before I had my daughter, and I already had my daughter when The Warrior came out. Wait, did The Warrior come out in '84? No, I had her a year later.
Whoops. Yeah. No, I was, oh I know, I was making my solo record when I had her. That was it.
So, in between the EP and The Warrior, Don Henley was calling my manager and trying to get me to come out, him and Kootch, trying to get me to sing on his record. And I kept saying no because, you know, I wasn't a very good background singer and I was like terrified, honestly. I'm like, “I'm not going to go out there and like, be bad.” So, I was like, “No, I don't want to do it.” And I didn't really know all the Eagles, I didn’t know the guys in the Eagles, who they were. I wasn't that big of an Eagles fan back then, but I knew who he was because of "Dirty Laundry", which I, was such a great song.
But I kept saying no. And then finally, they said, "We'll put her up in the Beverly Hills Hotel." And I was like, "Fine, I'll go." I mean, that's really, I made so many dumb decisions like that, honestly. But I'm so happy that I did say yes. I'm so happy he offered because we've been friends a long time and it’s so, it felt, it was so easy to sing with him, and I don't think that would, that's not the case with everyone that I could go in and sing on, because I wound up singing on four songs on that record.
But we just, our voices just worked really well together and that was fun. And then, you know, the solo record comes out, then I go to do "Sometimes Love Just Ain't Enough", and he recorded it with me three times, three different times before we got it right, which was funny, which was nice of him. But he did like the song. Joann Butler: Oh, so good.
Massive hit. And I wouldn't call you background, for sure. Patty Smyth: No, on mine. But on his records, like "Building the Perfect Beast" and "Sunset Grill", you know, that's what he wanted me to do, just come sing background.
He didn’t get to, he did a little bit more than background on that, I'd say. Yeah. Joann Butler: How would you say your sound and songwriting's changed like between Scandal and your solo work or? Patty Smyth: I don't know.
It's always hard to see it. I don't think we see change as much in ourselves as other people do. But I mean my songwriting was, a lot, was pretty, you know, usually had something to do with what was happening in my life. "Sometimes Love", "No Mistakes", "I Should Be Laughing", things like that were very sort of autobiographical.
And that’s, and I mean, I guess when I was beginning to write in Scandal, that was true. There were some songs like that, like "She's a Girl Who Can't Say No" was about a friend of mine who just was sleeping with everyone and just being treated so badly, and it was driving me crazy. And then, you know, another friend of mine, "All I Want", he was, you know, just somebody who was struggling with substances and stuff. So, I guess that was always in there.
I think what's probably changed more, I think my voice is probably a little bit different, it has to be. But I think I was, my voice was more raspy, weirdly. I remember going down to record with Barry Beckett, who was like a legendary Memphis guy, a great organ player, and I did some tracks with him. He was going to produce "Sometimes Love" and stuff like that.
And I remember him saying that, like I just, I think I got raspier and then I got like less raspy. But I don't know how it's changed. I'm not really sure because I can still sort of do those things, but I don't know. Joann Butler: How does it come to you when you are songwriting?
Like how do you do it? Patty Smyth: Here's the thing that happened. Like I went, the last batch of songs I wrote came out in 2020. I did that record.
I was working on this track with this guy, Gerald O'Brien, really good, he's out of, he used to live in Nashville, he's in LA now. And it was a really good track and I was like, "I don't know, let me, I'm going back to New York, I’m gonna take the track with me, I'll figure it out." Like I, I kind of had a… It was, he was playing it on piano, though, we wound up, we recorded it with guitar, and I couldn't think about, I just didn't know what the song, I didn’t know what I wanted to write about. I had no idea.
But I was estranged from my sister at the time. My sister and I were having, I only have one sister, you know, that I grew up with, I have two half-sisters, actually. And so we were kind of not really talking, things were bad. And I was in my closet and I picked up a photograph that was turned over.
And I turned it over and it was my sister and I in a field across from our house in Queens when we were kids. And so I just wrote, I found a picture of us when we were kids and that started it, and then I just wrote the song from there. But it turns out I put "drive" a lot in titles because I went back, I found some unreleased tracks, and one song's called "Drive You Away." So "drive" is a big thing in there. I didn't drive till I was 32, by the way.
So maybe that's why. Joann Butler: Really? Patty Smyth: Yeah. Yeah, I'm a New Yorker.
Joann Butler: You're a New Yorker, right. That's so funny. Patty Smyth: I learned how to drive in Topanga Canyon, you know. I mean, like I lived like way up in the canyons in LA and that's how I learned how to drive.
Joann Butler: Who taught you how to drive? Patty Smyth: Probably my sister taught me and my friend Linda taught me to drive out there. They just let me drive. Anyone who could drive, anyone who I had who was a friend of mine who could drive probably taught me how to drive, let me drive a little bit.
Joann Butler: That's so funny. Patty Smyth: I failed a couple of times. Joann Butler: Is it true that Eddie Van Halen asked you to take over for David Lee Roth when he left the band? Patty Smyth: Yes, that is correct.
I know. Again, very, I was very, we were friends because Valerie was a fan and they came and toured with us, Valerie and Ed. He was starting to talk to me about that a little bit then. And then when I was like eight months pregnant, she was on Letterman and he was sitting in with the band.
So I went up and watched the show because it was in New York, and we went, all went out to dinner. Paul Shaffer was there, I forgot to ask Paul if he remembers, Paul was there, Kortchmar were there, Danny Kortchmar, who used to work with Henley. And he said, "I got to know. You got to let me know now." And I just was like, "No, I can't do it." I mean, which is again, that's what I'm saying about those decisions I made without really thinking it through.
But I was like, "I'm really pregnant, I don't want to move to LA." Meanwhile, I've had a home in LA now for 35 years. But you know, at that point, I could not see myself. And him and Alex, you know, they were, had a pretty, you know, they had it good, they were very close, but they were, you know they fought a little bit like siblings do. And so I think if he had said to me, "Let's make a record," then that would have been different, but I don't know, I just, I didn’t, I mean, it's terrible to say this, but I loved him.
I don't know if I loved you know, the band, the music that much. It wasn't necessarily, so, yeah so, I think it was timing. Timing is everything. And it wasn’t really like, where I was going right then and there.
And I was working on my own record and writing my own. So, but in retrospect, I really wish that we had made a record together. That would have been great. And I loved him, he was really a wonderful guy.
He loved "Maybe We Went Too Far", that was a song that was on the, was the last song on The Warrior record, and he loved that. Yeah. But, you know, he would have tried to make me sing because he made Sammy Hagar sing so high on those records. He loved that and he was always trying.
And I was like, "Wow, okay. Yeah, I'm sure he would have tried to get me to sing really high." But after I said no, he found Sammy Hagar, and he said to me at one point, we talked and he's like, yeah, because I was out there recording a record, and he was like, "I don't want Sammy to look like second choice." I'm like, "Okay." So I never talked about it. And then somehow it got out, and then you know I think Howard Stern asked me. You know, then it, a lot of people still don't know it, but, so it's not like I go, "Hey, I was asked to," but if somebody asks me, I tell them.
But it's funny, I was like, "Okay, I understand." Joann Butler: Could you imagine how cool that would have been? Patty Smyth: It would have been cool for at least a record, it would have been cool, yeah. Joann Butler: Well, for us, I guess. I never could understand Sammy Hagar back then.
Like now I get it, but then I was like… Patty Smyth: Well, he was very, very different then. But you know, but they did make a couple good records. I mean, the songs, there were a couple of really good songs.
Joann Butler: Yeah. Patty Smyth: And he sang really high. That's for damn sure. Joann Butler: Yeah.
It's so funny because your voice is so deep. How would he make you sound high? How could... Patty Smyth: Well I can sing high, but I mean, he just would keep pushing, I think, you know?
It's like Henley sang really high on his records, too. Yeah, I'm not always at the brink. I don't like being at the brink. I like to be at the brink for a second, but if you're at the brink, it gets to be grating a little bit I feel like.
It also really hurts your vocal cords, I think. You got to get in and you got to get out. Joann Butler: All right. John McEnroe.
You're married to John McEnroe. I always thought that was… Patty Smyth: No I’m not. Joann Butler: Oh, see, I scooped it.
Patty Smyth: Nobody knows that. Joann Butler: That was another thing. I always thought that was a funny pairing. Could never get it.
I was like scared of him in a good sort of way. Patty Smyth: Did you think it was a funny pairing, us? Joann Butler: Yeah because he was so scary, I was scared of him because he always yelled. And I…
Patty Smyth: He's kind of scary. He can be scary. Joann Butler: Then I started to get it and now I really get it because he's a musician and I saw him play recently, at the Love Rocks show. I didn't know he was that good.
Patty Smyth: Yeah, he's pretty good. But I mean, you know what's funny about that is like I met him in LA at like a friend's Christmas party, and we didn't get together for another, I guess another like nine months, but I met him at this Christmas party and then he, but what's funny about that is we grew up like 20 minutes from each other in Queens. I mean, you know, you go around the world, he certainly did many times, and you marry a guy from Queens, you know, or a girl from Queens. And I have a way worse temper than him, and he's like the one that's like calming me down.
He tells everybody like I'm the one like, "Don't f*** with me, with my kids, with my husband," because I am from Brooklyn. He's from Queens. I lived in Queens for a little while, but I also spent a few years in Brooklyn. So, it, that ratchets it up, ratchets up the rage.
God, I don't know what he would have been like if he spent any time in Brooklyn. That would have made him really a terror on the court. So, I mean, we're very much alike, weirdly, but he can be scary. I don't have that scary thing of like, he does that silent thing or the really loud thing.
I always tell the story, my kids love the story about when I went first time with him to the French Open. I'd never, I guess we must have been flying back and forth because I was in LA then and he was here when we were first going out. This is the first six months we were going out, and I got on a plane with him to Paris and he didn't say one word to me on that flight. That's how he traveled.
He just didn't talk on the plane, I guess. So, he read whatever, and I was sitting there, by the time we landed in Paris, I was so upset and so mad. I'm like, "You didn't even talk..." And then like I realized that was just him, that he just didn't talk on the plane. But, you know, he's that way in the car, too.
He wants to listen to the radio. None of my kids want to drive with him, they all want to drive with me. Joann Butler: Why does he drive? Oh, because he doesn't talk.
Patty Smyth: He doesn't want to talk. He's a weird, weird, he's a weird traveler. The guy's traveled, yeah, I call him the Lone Wolf. The guy's traveled, you know, most of his life since he's a kid, you know, literally a teenager.
So, he has his, you know, thing. He's idiosyncratic, but that, I mean, they broke the mold with him. He’s I count myself really, really lucky. We've been together 32 years this month.
That's crazy. Joann Butler: That's rare. Patty Smyth: And I don't even know how that happened. And I never saw that in my future.
Never. I had already given up when I met him. But he was the one that knew. He knew.
And I was like, "Nope, no. That's not real. There is no such thing as love or people are miserable in their marriage." I saw no signs of like love and marriage being a good thing. So, you know, not when I was growing up and not as I was out there on the, you know, dating scene or whatever, but somehow he knew.
So, I'll be eternally grateful for that, that he knew. Joann Butler: When did it click for you and say… Patty Smyth: I just sort of, I think the part of it that clicked for me was that he, like even though it was exciting, it was very familiar. Like I really felt like I knew him.
I felt very comfortable with him. He was like, like again, somebody I grew up with or, I don't really know what the alchemy was, but it was familiar and exciting, and he was a good, I could tell that he was good and kind, and he is good and kind, and he's got a lot of integrity. He probably has more integrity than anyone that I know, honestly. Like he does the right thing.
He always tries to do the right thing. So I think I just sort of trusted him. I knew I wasn't going to get hurt, like in any way. I'm not just, you know, like I knew somehow that I could sort of, I just went, really just went along with it and then I got caught up.
I was like, "Okay, I'll believe that, you know, this is possible. Sometimes you have to act as if," you know, they say. So that's kind of what I did and then I caught up. Joann Butler: That's so cool.
I love it. Patty Smyth: Yeah, that was, that's crazy, though. I don't know how that happened. I have no advice for anyone because I don’t know.
Joann Butler: That's on here. "What's your advice?" Well, it just works. Have you guys, well, you've played together for sure and you're going to be, right, at the Carlyle? Patty Smyth: Yeah, he'll come and play with me.
Yeah. I mean, you know, it's funny. He's like hell froze over, but you know, because he really wants to be in a band with me and I'm like, "I don't know about that." But like I just did something out in East Hampton, we did something in the summer, and he came out and did three or four songs, and it's fun because he is good and he loves music and he loves rock and roll and he's so enthusiastic. So, it's fun.
Like I wrote a song called "Wish I Were You". When I first met him, I wrote a song about him. I'm going to do that at the Carlyle because he just was so into music and I was so over the music business at that point. I was like, "Don't play music, don't talk to me about music," you know, like wherever I was, I just was like, I'm taking a break here.
And I literally wrote the song about like how he just, you know, he used to tell me that he didn't remember his dreams. And then I guess one day he must have said to me, "I think I had a dream and I think it was in color." You know, I don't ever remember if my dreams are in color or not. But that became the line of the song, like "he dreams in color." Which is funny, because then Eddie Vedder had a song, that came, he wrote that after, but it just was a coincidence that we had the same line. But he just loves it and that's something that's, you know, rubbed off on me a little bit I guess.
I came around. So now I like for him to, you know, to play a little bit with me. He's wrestled that guitar into submission. That's kind of, he just, his will has wrestled that and he can play it now.
But through COVID, all he did was play and he got a lot better. You know, it was his time that I had a problem with. Like his time was not so good, but it's way better now. He's got a good ear.
Yeah. And he loves music. So, I mean, and he's actually good at picking out good songs, which is a gift, I'd say. Joann Butler: I love that.
Patty Smyth: Yeah. So, we kind of have that in common. We both like art, you know, and we go look at art and collect art and yeah. Joann Butler: Yeah.
I was going to say, what do you two do, what do two legends do when you're not working? Patty Smyth: When we're not, it's funny what's happened since COVID. Like I go upstairs and I watch Murder and he's watching sports, and then I come downstairs and every TV that could possibly be on is on a different sport and that's kind of what he does. Like after the Open, you know, he'd have to come home and unwind.
Joann Butler: So he went. Did he go alone? Patty Smyth: He drives himself there and back. He doesn't like, if that's what you mean.
He goes alone and I went a couple of times. I don't go too much. I like to watch it on TV, but I like to go. I mean, it's fine.
So he comes home and watches more sports or, you know, Jimmy Kimmel, something. Yeah. Depending on how late it went. One of those matches went to like 3:30 in the morning.
It’s like crazy. Yeah. Joann Butler: I didn't follow, I don't know. But I want that hat out there.
Patty Smyth: The Wimbledon. I go to, yeah. I should be, I know a lot about tennis. Not on purpose, but I've just picked it up.
It took me a year, I just want to say, if anyone cannot keep score in tennis, it took me a year and I just pretended that I, “Oh, yeah, yeah. I know what the score…” No idea what was happening because it was love and then it's 15 and then it's deuce and then it's, It's like, it's complicated at first. But… Joann Butler: Pickleball's complicated.
Patty Smyth: Oh yeah. I don't even, Yeah. He really doesn't like pickleball. I played it a couple of times.
But do you play it, because people love it. Joann Butler: I tried it once and I was like, "This is too hard. Just give me regular tennis." Patty Smyth: All right. Good.
Joann Butler: But, so do you play tennis now? Patty Smyth: You know, I was playing tennis, and I guess like 20 years ago, probably, maybe more, you know I told you I got hit by a car. That was way, a long, long time ago. And then I tore my meniscus playing tennis.
And so I just stopped playing. It wasn't worth it. Like I could do every other sport but tennis, because it's this lateral move. And so that's not good when you don't have an ACL.
So I don't play tennis. I like it. But, and I was pretty good at it. Joann Butler: Do you play with him?
Patty Smyth: Oh, he is so annoying to play with. That's the other thing. Like after I had a baby, I had a couple of babies with him, I'd go out and play tennis and he'd run me from one end of the, I'm like, "What are you f****** doing? You can hit the ball to me, dude.
I know you can hit the ball to me." But he was trying to help me get the weight, whatever, you know, his exercise. I would get so mad. I'd throw the racket at him, not even on the ground. So, and all the kids, he would do that, you know, like he can't help it.
So, when I tore my meniscus on my friend's tennis court, we were playing doubles, he's like, "You know, you don't have to run every ball down." But meanwhile, he made me run every ball down. So, there you go. So, I don't play a lot of tennis. Joann Butler: You should be tougher with him on the guitar then, since...
Patty Smyth: Oh, I've been tough on him.Yeah, I've been, I definitely have been tough on him. So, I give him some props now for trying. Joann Butler: I love it. Patty Smyth: You know, just because you're good at something, by the way, doesn't mean you're a good teacher.
You know, that's the other thing. Like, maybe that's why,like, because there's so many great teachers. Maybe they weren't great players or the best, but they're so gifted at teaching. You know, it's, they don't always go hand in hand.
Joann Butler: Yeah. No, that's true. Yeah, for sure. Okay.
Advice. You already said you're not going to answer that one, next. Patty Smyth: Oh you have to keep having sex. That's John's advice.
Joann Butler: Oh, of course that’s a man's advice. Patty Smyth: That's right. But I mean, I think it's true. I think you have to stay connected, and people stop being connected in their 30s for crying out loud.
So, I think that's something you have to try to, you really have to keep it going. And sometimes it's harder than other times, I guess. Yeah. But I think that's the only, that would be our advice.
How's that? Joann Butler: Not good. My husband's in the room. Patty Smyth: Uh oh.
Sorry. But it is, I know, because it's, you know, it's unfair. I'm going to say for women it's unfair because our hormones just leave us. I mean, they're just gone.
And like men, maybe some of, maybe their testosterone goes down a little bit, but you know, so it's a, it's definitely challenging. Joann Butler: Yeah. Patty Smyth: But I mean, I think it's something that's not a bad thing. Joann Butler: What would your current self tell your younger?
Patty Smyth: Oh man, so many things. But I would probably, I mean I feel like I was weirdly cocky in some ways and then sort of like not as confident in other ways. In the beginning, like in the, I let the record company people sort of like be too, in too much in the decision making because I felt like they knew what they were doing, you know? Like I was sort of new to the business and, but I think you have to really listen to yourself, I think, and not make decisions based on dumb ego or pride or, I would say that was one thing.
And I would say another thing is to keep any of your opinions about people to yourself and not, you know, because I felt like compelled to let people know if I thought they were an asshole. And that's not necessarily good for, you know, just for life in general. It's like you can keep that to yourself. If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say it.
That's one thing that falls under that. Like sometimes I feel like I would have to step in and do things, and say something when maybe it wasn't my place to do it. And maybe I was right, but it doesn't matter. So that's part of it, I think.
And also to remember that it was a business. I was just so happy to be making records. And like I went in the first year with Zack and my management and I signed a publishing deal. I didn't need to sign a publishing deal.
I didn't need the money. I had an $180 a month apartment. I was flush. Like I was, you know I wasn’t like, I was okay, but they needed the money because they were all living in fancy apartments on the Upper East Side.
So, I kind of went in and I wasn't really writing songs yet, so I didn't really even know what that was. You know what I mean? And my lawyer should have tipped me off on that, but that I didn't know about. I think it's different now.
I don't think I even have to give that advice. I think there's been so many books written about the business of music. So, I would say that that would be one thing, like I really should have thought of it as, you know, I just was sort of like winging it. I just, you know, I never really had a long-term plan.
I wasn't super ambitious, and maybe that's okay, you know, because I've had a pretty great life. But I mean, I think it was also sort of like, wow, this is really my job, you know, something like that. Even though it wasn't a reach because everyone around me was a musician, you know, like everyone in my mom's world was a musician. But everybody back in like, school and around my Brooklyn neighborhood were not.
So.. Joann Butler: Right. Patty Smyth: And I also, I don't know. I mean, I guess that's enough advice to tell my younger self.
Think about stuff. You have to make decisions for the right reasons, like, not cavalierly. Like, "No, I don't think I'll join Van Halen right now. Maybe next year." Joann Butler: You don't regret you did that?
Patty Smyth: I don't, I don't regret, I mean, I think I regretted it for a minute. I think I was like, "S***,” like you know, My solo record kind of did that, and then, you know? So, I mean, there's always a moment where you're like, "Should I have done that?" And people were so disappointed when I, that I didn't, you know? A lot of people really thought that would be a good idea.
So, but not anymore. No, I think Sammy did a good job and it all worked out fine because who knows how that would have changed the trajectory of my life. You know, I might not have met John. I might not have had my next two kids.
It's like my life is, you know, sometimes you also have to trust in the process. So, but it is hard to know when, as my sister says, you always think you should zig instead of zag and you just don't know sometimes. But you know, and now I'm at this point in my life, like, you know, I still want to be singing. I still want to do that, but you know, like how much do I want to do it?
Like, you know, like how do I want to do it? So, and that's okay, too. Joann Butler: Yeah. That's, that's great.
Patty Smyth: Yeah. I mean, I guess I've been very lucky. I've been very lucky. But I really want to get back to loving how much I loved to sing.
I used to love the sound of my own voice. It's funny, like I couldn't get enough of like playing with it. And I feel like I don't have that anymore. Like, you know, that's, maybe that's something that happens really in the beginning and in the early years, you know?
You kind of, then you get used to it or something. But I’d kind of like to try to get that back, just that like, you know, and really annoy people around me by singing constantly like I did. Literally, even my daughter Ruby when she was two was like, "No sing, Mommy." I mean, because I would be singing all the time. Joann Butler: Well how do you get it back?
How do you get it back? Patty Smyth: I don't know. I think I got to go back into the back stairwells of buildings again, you know, like where all the acoustics sound good and do that. It comes back.
Joann Butler: That’s interesting. Patty Smyth: But I mean, I think it's like anything else. You have to keep doing it. Joann Butler: Yes.
Well, you're doing it. Patty Smyth: Yeah, I'm doing it. Joann Butler: What about new music? Is there anything coming?
Patty Smyth: I haven't, I really haven't been writing that much. I mean, I have some, but that's another thing that I, I met these two women in LA who are really good musicians and really good singers. And so, I think I'm going to go when I'm done with these gigs, I'm going to go in and try and do some recording with them. So, something more vocally interesting for me, like because I always feel like I did all the heavy lifting vocally and not really a lot of background singers, and I kind of want that now.
So, because it just adds so much. So, I think that's what I'm going to, that's where I'm going. So, I have to, I'll be writing probably with them and got to start doing it. You know, the inspiration comes, but it comes when it comes for me.
Joann Butler: Yes. Well, the Carlyle and the Pat Benatar shows coming, those will be cool. And I mean Carlyle, I remember staying there. We stayed there once for a week.
I couldn't even get in. I couldn't get into the thing. Patty Smyth: It's so, I know, because it's so, it's just small. It's like 88 seats.
Joann Butler: Yeah. Patty Smyth: So that's crazy. I think there were still tickets, but. Yeah, but I mean it's wild.
It's hard to get in there. Joann Butler: I think you could call up anybody and they’d want to do stuff with you, so I think there’s lots for you. I think, is there any collabs you’d want to do that, well you just told us, your friends. Patty Smyth: No I mean, I mean collabs in the future?
God, I don't know. So many people that I wanted to collab with, you know, I realized that like a lot of them are going, you know, so I'd like to figure out somebody young maybe that I'd like to sing with. And there's a couple of really good young singers coming. There's a couple of good Brits coming up.
So yeah, maybe I have to give that some thought. That would be fun. I would like to do something really like completely insanely like you'd never think of it. That'd be fun, like totally opposite me.
But I don't know who that is. Joann Butler: Yeah. Patty Smyth: I don't know. Joann Butler: I know, because you're so kind of eclectic.
Yeah, I wonder who would be totally opposite of you. Patty Smyth: I don't know, I've been thinking about that, though. I always wanted to like work with a hip-hop artist or a rap. Do you, do you like, like remember Tammy Wynette did this crazy vocal.
It was like the '90s, though. I can't remember the name of the band was, but it was, I'm not going to remember the song, but it was like “Mu Mu Land.” It was something like that, and she did this whole, it was made-up words, but it was great because they did this whole rap thing and then she'd come in with her chorus. Joann Butler: Oh, wow. Patty Smyth: Kind of rappy, wasn't total rap.
Yeah, I thought that was great. But you know how Pet Shop Boys did it with, oh, my God, I'm sorry, this is when I'm having a senior moment right now. Joann Butler: Oh, please. Patty Smyth: Dusty Springfield!
Got it. Just, it's not totally senior, just, it's just a moment. Joann Butler: It's a moment. It's the hormones.
Patty Smyth: Right. It is the goddamn hormones. Joann Butler: I think you should do a, something with John. I think you should.
Patty Smyth: Yeah. Joann Butler: I think that would sell. He's good. He's a good guitar player.
Patty Smyth: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Joann Butler: You singing. She’s like yeah, she doesn’t want to. Something you want to do you haven't done?
Patty Smyth: I'd like to keep writing. You know, I worked on a bunch of short stories, and I've written a bunch of stories. I'd like to, I need to get more discipline, and I'd like to sit down and just keep writing. I had an idea for a TV show, so I'm…
Joann Butler: Oh, my gosh. Patty Smyth: Throwing stuff around just because it's funny, and it might be a good idea, who the heck knows? So, that would be fun to try to do something like that. Joann Butler: That's so cool.
Patty Smyth: I also thought about doing a podcast with my sister, because she's really funny, and when we start going, it's, I mean, you have to bleep every word that we say, but something like that, maybe. Joann Butler: Cool. What's your favorite comfort food? Patty Smyth: Right now, it's fried chicken.
I mean, if I could, I would eat a fried chicken sandwich every day with coleslaw in it and a pickle, but I'd say that's up there. I like shepherd's pie, too, that's a good one. What’s yours? Joann Butler: That’s a good comfort food.
French fries. Patty Smyth: Oh, I eat french fries all the time, I guess that must be it. I do eat a lot of chips. Yes.
Chips and fries. Joann Butler: My rumination. Favorite cocktail? Patty Smyth: I don't drink.
Joann Butler: Oh, you don't drink? Good for you. I said I was going to stop, too, but I don't know, I had a beer last night, I don't know. Patty Smyth: You don't have to stop.
I'm trying to think of what was my favorite cocktail. I don't know. Joann Butler: That’s good, drinking's bad, like smoking. Patty Smyth: Yeah, I like wine.
If I was going to pick one, it'd probably be a good wine, not a cocktail. Joann Butler: Is there anything you want to say that we didn't cover? Patty Smyth: No, I mean, I have a grandchild, but I don't need to say that. But I mean, I do have a 10-month-old grandbaby.
She was born a month after my, I lost my mom, which was like… Joann Butler: That's so beautiful. Patty Smyth: Thank God for that. I think it really sort of like helped me.
Joann Butler: Oh, yes. Patty Smyth: I think I'm coming around, though, from that, but, she lives in California, so I've been there so much. Joann Butler: Well you can go back. Patty Smyth: Yeah, but she's the funniest baby I have ever met.
I mean, she's just so happy all the time. Joann Butler: Oh, it's so great. Patty Smyth: I got to show you a picture of her, but she's, she's hilarious. So, she, she makes me laugh out loud, like, I'm like, cause she's like this close to my, because she doesn't see me for a couple weeks, so when she sees me again, she's right here with these big blue eyes, like studying my face, and I just laugh.
Makes me happy. I had no idea, it's like crack, this baby. I mean, I've never done crack, but I, from what I hear, this baby's like crack. I just want to watch her, it’s crazy.
Joann Butler: It's amazing. Yeah, what a, what a time. Perfect timing. Patty Smyth: That was good timing.
Yeah. Joann Butler: It's beautiful. Patty Smyth: I know. I'm putting my glasses on, so, oh, there you are.
Joann Butler: You can see me now. Patty Smyth: You were in very soft focus for a while. I don't know, I never wear glasses on, but I guess… Joann Butler: Wow Patty, so good, we got to go to that, get to that show.
Patty Smyth: Yeah, there are tickets available. Joann Butler: Oh, it's after the Pat Benatar one. Patty Smyth: I have to put a whole other band together in the West, I'm not going to fly everybody, you know, so like I'm putting a band together for that show. Joann Butler: Oh, so it'll be a different type show then.
Patty Smyth: Yeah, I mean, I'm happy to do it. It's just a bit of a pain because it's three weeks before I've got to come back, and then I'm rehearsing with a, with different guys. But Keith Mack is my guitar player from, and like my baby brother, so he's going to do both shows with me. So, he'll come, he's like my security blanket.
Joann Butler: Aw. Yeah, it's nice. Patty Smyth: Because I know him so long, I can beat up on him, yell at him, scream at him, and he knows what keys I sing everything in, because I don't know anything, like, "What key do I…" I go, "Go listen to the record." That's, I don't know what key it is. But anyway, so I, it's going to be fun.
It'll be good to see Pat again. You know, the sad part, I guess the other thing I would say about that, I guess I better take my glasses off, is that, you know, we were not really like, I feel like there's a lot more camaraderie among women now and women artists, and back in the day, you know, you were like stacked against each other. It was kind of like actresses in Hollywood or whatever, because you were literally competing for the same one slot a week. That doesn't really, you know, breed camaraderie.
It breeds competition and sort of, so that was kind of like we were all kind of in our own lanes, and we weren't really intersecting, and I, I feel bad about that, because it would have been nice to have been collaborating or doing stuff together, or, you know, just kind of helping each other, as opposed to feeling like, "Oh, they might be in my way." Joann Butler: Yeah. Patty Smyth: Because that was kind of, I mean, I think the guys liked it that way, too. I think, I think guys do like it that way, but, so, and back in the day it was kind of like that more. I regret that.
That would have been nice to have changed. Joann Butler: Well, it's came, it came around. Patty Smyth: It did, yeah, which is good. Joann Butler: How did it come around?
Like how did you… Patty Smyth: I don't, it didn't come around for me. I mean, you know, I've always had girlfriends and stuff, but I don't know how it turned. I just think it just, I think rock and roll just started slipping out.
And rock and roll was sexist, let's face it. It was, you know, hate to say it, even though I love it, it was not that women-friendly if you think about it. There's a handful of rock chicks, right? Joann Butler: Yes.
Patty Smyth: Not that many, even back to the '60s. And I think as it got more into pop, and I don't know, it just seemed like all of a sudden there were so many more singers, so female singers. So, I'm not really sure why it changed. I'm not sure like society changed that much, but music did, maybe.
Yeah, because in R&B, it was always women and men. I don't feel like R&B was that male-dominated. I mean, it was more men just because I guess going on the road and stuff like that. But I think that, yeah, I think rock and roll was a little bit more misogynistic.
Joann Butler: But how did you get together like with Pat again, for example? Patty Smyth: That was just something where I think they just had somebody drop out of their tour like a few months ago and they asked me if I would do it. So I said I would. Yeah.
I mean, they live in Malibu, I think. I never see her out there. We have a home out there, but I never see them. I don't run into her a lot, so it'll be good to see them.
How's that? Joann Butler: That was so good. You're so good. Patty Smyth: Am I?
Thank you. I'm glad. Joann Butler: You’re such a great interview. I had goosebumps the whole time.
Patty Smyth: I was coming up going, "I don't know, are we going to talk about, like what do we talk about?" Joann Butler: Like everything. Patty Smyth: All right. Good.
